the planter

Easter Message from my friend Gil

2009-04-11T21:16:00.001-05:00

Dear Bob,
Easter is a time when we remember the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf. He paid for our sins on the cross and was resurrected to prove that He was our Savior and Lord. I personally cannot go through this season without taking time to picture myself laying in the dirt at the base of the cross with Jesus hanging on it. I am weeping for my sins and self-focus. His drops of blood are landing all around me and on me as I hear Him offer forgiveness. To receive grace from God when I should receive wrath is amazing.

May I never recover from the realization that I do not deserve what God has freely given me in Christ.

In His Service,

Dr. Gil Stieglitz
1900 Balboa Drive
Roseville, CA 95661
916.344.3322
www.westerndistrict.org
www.ptlb.com

Thank you Gil! But more importantly thank you JESUS!

It's Easter Everyday..

2009-04-07T19:57:00.002-05:00

For a recovering American Church pastor, Easter is everyday. Everyday is Resurrection Sunday.

Would you be surprised if I am not all excited about Resurrection Sunday? Why? I'm excited about Resurrection day & everyday in the lives of those I meet.

I'm not excited about Easter Sunday spectaculars because every day is another Easter Spectacular. What we create on Easter Sunday is not match for what Jesus creates everyday.

If you don't see me Sunday, look for me on Monday with the people Jesus came to redeem.

Out of ministry to be in ministry...

2009-03-24T21:00:00.002-05:00

I'm out of professional ministry in search of being in ministry.

Professing believers do not pay me, I work as a tent maker. Jesus is the ONE who owns me, not man.

After 28 years of bondage to the church in America I can finally say I am FREE!

How free? You tell me this time.

Moving on and out one step at a time...

2009-01-30T23:52:00.002-06:00

Tonight on the eve of my 51st birthday Michelle & I are taking next steps in our disciple making/multiplying journey. Not sure where we will end up but very sure our disciple multiplying efforts will remain the goal of our lives.

Saying goodbye to Disciple Driven Church and her safety net is exciting and full of the possibility of initiating the launch of many more disciple multiplying movements.

God refuses to let us settle in for very long. With excitement following our first step into the Red Sea or River Jordan we have no clue what that second step will look like. We move forward with the promise that God always honors faith and total dependency upon Him.

These are truly exciting days as we walk in His steps. Keep praying for the disciple multipliers who remain with Disciple Driven Church. And, praise God for His work in their lives.

What's wrong with this picture?

2009-01-18T13:18:00.004-06:00

For some time I have been speaking out on the issue of a "Flawed Discipleship Process" in our churches and in the thinking of many parents. We have been taught and taught others to fully entrust our children into the hands of "professional/trained/teachers" for their spiritual development. In the end a perceived good thing like Sunday School and youth groups has brought terrible results. Instead of parents being taught how to disciple their own kids,others took that role for them. Really, handing our children over to the experts and into great programs seemed like the right thing to do. Parental failure to disciple their own children has resulted in consequences too painful to admit or even carry.

No,I am not church bashing/Sunday school bashing/youth group bashing or parent bashing, this article is presented to raise awareness.

The Following article comes from Disciple Like Jesus a ministry that focuses on parental disciple making and the tools to accomplish the task.

Disciple Like Jesus Article:

"What's at Stake?

Your children and your friends' eternal destinies are at stake. According to Barna Research and other organizations, the church is losing between 75 and 88 percent of its children (never to return) by their second year of college. Only 9 percent of all born-again Christians have a biblical worldview; that means that your child and friends have less than a 10 percent chance of having a biblical worldview in the future!

Assuming that only 75 percent of all youth are leaving, this translates into more than 2 million children in America each year who are permanently leaving the church and over 40 million lost in the last two decades. If we do nothing to address this situation, by the year 2050 we will lose another 113 million children!

Regarding adult converts, there has been discussion for decades about the "revolving door" in the church. Many churches have reached a plateau of membership, and many are actually declining.

What’s the Root Cause?

We believe that the root cause is a faulty discipleship process that has been used by most Christian parents for decades. In summary, the process is identical to the training system used in secular society, except for the presence of faith-related activities such as church attendance, prayer, etc. The total time spent on biblical training is less than five hours a week. With less than five hours of biblical training a week and more than eighty hours of nonbiblical training/influence a week, the nonbiblical influence easily wins out shortly after our children leave home. As a result, our children and future generations are lost to the world.

This faulty process is based on information transfer (secular education) rather than the development of deep, lifetime relationships with God and man. Consequently, there is no lasting fruit for individuals or for God's kingdom."

The Planter: The faulty process is not only just "information transfer over deepened relationships with God and man but also one of spiritual authority transfer from the parent to other teachers/leaders. We have given up our most important role of discipling our own children without even realizing it. When we do not disciple our own children they do not look to us as having any spiritual authority over them.

Declaring God's Glory over Satan's Devastation

2009-01-08T13:01:00.004-06:00

Through Disciple Driven Church and Sun Ministries we have accepted the call to plant missionaries in devastated neighborhoods in order to reclaim lives and land destroyed by Satan's evil. We are not planting churches - we are planting trained missionaries to live in these areas and make the Christ difference in them.

I believe Satan mocks God by showing Him the large American cities ravaged by his evil. I can almost hear Satan mocking God, "Look at what I have done to your cities. Where is your power and where is your churches influence? I am destroying everything important to you."

So we are committed to taking the next step to reclaim the hearts and land devastated by Satan in order to Declare God's Glory once again. Satan is mocking us and our God.

Through our Disciples making Disciples efforts we are raising up Holy Spirit empowered missionaries with a commitment to move into these broken down neighborhoods to bring God's redeeming power to the city. In St. Louis just 9 blocks from the arch we have entire neighborhoods of destruction. While many have left those areas many are trapped. As we rebuild many will come back to the inner city.

As these neighborhoods come back -The Glory of God will be restored and disciples who make disciples will also bring glory back to the land. We envision new "God life" rising up from among the ruin.

We are calling missionaries to St. Louis! If you are up to a God sized opportunity -we are recruiting, training, and releasing for this cause.

We are targeting mostly young college grads who long to experience the God they read about in Scriptures but have never experiences and those who long to rebuild people and land from ruin to God's Glory.

Kary Oberbrunner writes...

2009-01-05T11:00:00.001-06:00

The excerpt below is taken from his new book "CALLED:Becoming What You Were Meant To Be"

In my experience, the extent of Christianity that I’ve been presented with goes something like this:

1. Accept Jesus and ask Him into your heart.
2. Don’t do bad things now.
3. Withdraw from culture.
4. Hang out with Christians.
5. Go to church.
6. Read your Bible and pray.
7. Be happy that you are saved and not going to Hell.
8. Tell other people about how happy they can be if they follow
these seven steps.

Is it just me, or is this a lame life! Where is the passion? Where is the adventure? Where is the abundant life that Jesus promised us? No wonder we’re bored. The Jesus we’ve been presented with asks for way too little. No one wants to devote their lives to something that requires nothing of them. Like the saying goes, “people figure, if it don’t ask much then it ain’t worth much.”

THE PLANTER: It's time we get stirred up!

Anony just posted this way down the line...I respond!

2009-01-02T11:43:00.003-06:00

Anonymous has left a new comment on a post down the line, somewhere, who knows where? Here they are:

"Come and see the Love of Jesus Alive in our Church! That banner is an invitation to those who are lost.

Mr. Carder, I believe that you have lost the Joy of Jesus and gained a genuine dislike of the Church. And if that is so, how can you be a member of the Holy Church, the body of Christ.

Try as you might, the church will never be perfect because it is made up of sinners, saved by the Grace of Jesus!!"

THE PLANTER RESPONDS:

Since these comments were just received and far down the blogpost line, I'm bringing it up to the top for discussion.

1. First, I love the Church, always have and always will. I have given my life to Jesus so I am part of the Church - the bride of Christ. His holy bride!

2. Anony is right, I am not very happy with what I have seen in the church and I dislike her when she refuses to become the Church that declares the glory of God! I dislike our lack of freedom as in living a victorious life, our unwillingness to personally engage the lost - a mandate for all believers, our consumerism focus, our lack of holiness, our ineffectiveness in reaching younger generations, our departmentalized spiritual lives, our lack of a sacrificial do or die commitment. This is enough to start the discussion. If you are not guilty of the claims above - don't go down the defensive road, I don't have time for that anymore. If you can't see that the church in America is fast losing her influence and power to transform whole communities for Christ - I'm not going to be able to convince you -you are already fully blind. Go ahead and bask in your glory at the expense of displaying God's glory.

3. Inviting unsaved people to church has for too long become our excuse for not leading them to Jesus ourselves. We have missed our true calling. Why not teach and lead the church (every believer) to lead people to Jesus and then enfold them into the church family in baptism, into total freedom, and in the power of a Holy Spirit baptized relationship.

4. I love being a part of the Body of Christ. I grieve, deeply at what we have done to water down the power of the "setting captives truly free" message. If anony senses a lack of joy on my part regarding the church it is not as one who hates the church - it is because I love the church and I have a "weeping prophet" awareness of the state of the church. The ship (Church) has leakage, if we can admit it, there is hope/time to turn course and take back what has been ravaged by Satan so that God's glory can once again be declared to the physical and spiritual realms.

5. I strongly dislike what is represented here in anony's post to me. First it is done anonymously. That's not Biblical. What spiritual brother or sister would do that under cover? I should be used to such anonymous attacks -I've had them all my life (usually just minutes before I got up to preach). Secondly it is judgmental. I doubt that anony even knows me. Even if she/he claims to -they do not know me the way I and others close to me, know me. Thirdly, this is a perfect example of the self-righteousness of the church (sadly) toward others. In my case anony has presumed me to be or made me to be lost. Fourthly, everyone knows the Church is not perfect, none of us are perfect, we all know that, don't we? Is that any excuse for not being the thriving, beating heart of Jesus?

6. Finally, if the church is not teaching/leading all believers to make disciples who make disciples why do we not change that and regain the New Testament thrust of becoming a Holy Spirit fueled and transformational Church that declares God's glory?

I see the Church declaring the glory of God. It's like this - Even the demons know that God is God and that He alone is God when they see the Holy Spirit power of God unleashed through us. Are the demons convinced (because of you) that the God you serve is God and that He alone is God because of the Gory of God displayed in your life? After God does a work in others through you - do the demons run scared? Are they convinced that God is God in your life because of the fruit in your life?

Please no senseless - defensive - babbling allowed. Let's talk about making the difference.

So far so good on the Summer Internship 2009!

2008-12-29T12:35:00.005-06:00

With our desire to see a reformation of New Testament Christianity spread across America we are focusing on raising up Next Generation Leaders to reach their own generation - one that is largely exiting the modern American Church. This generation longs to experience the Jesus and the miraculous power of God they have only read about in Scriptures.

One such young college student recently stated that she has read about freedom in the Bible but that she just cannot experience it for herself. The truth is that there is freedom from everything for everyone who desires it. We have done a great job talking about who Jesus is and what He offers but we have not done such a great job showing people how to experience all that Jesus offers. Our young adults have watched us - their parents and leaders talk about freedom but then not have it in our own lives. We have a settled in for a less than what God offers all of us. They (younger generations) want to experience the Jesus they have read about - the Jesus of the New Testament, the Jesus of resurrection power.

So far so good on our attempts to enroll a group of young college age students to attend our internship in Jackson Hole this coming summer 2009. We are more than halfway of our goal. Both Anthony Marks and Mark Goodman our team leaders will take the group through a process of intentional discipleship that will enable every young leader to go back home and make the difference in their own generation. If Jesus and freedom is what they are seeking then it is Jesus and His freedom that we will give them to give to others. To say the least it will be a transformational summer for the group. And, they get housing, food and employment in one of the most beautiful places in America. So each intern can leave broke for the internship and come home with some savings.

Please pray for this internship program and for all the young leaders who attend. From my experience, nothing has profoundly changed my life like this training. After more than 25 years as a Pastor of growing churches, my eyes have been opened and it is so New Testament and so simple. Why do we have to complicate the simplicities of God's redemptive plan?

God is already and will continue to use the Next Generation Leaders to bring a reformation of New Testament Christianity to America. I am truly seeing this happen in my lifetime. See sunministries for more info.

What does Christmas mean to you?

2008-12-18T13:01:00.004-06:00

Our son Matthew and his wife Liz and baby Silas have a Vizla - a Hungarian dog and here's a picture of the breed at top. I'm not sure if the Christmas dog is a Vizla or not -sure looks like it could be.

Help me reach them....

2008-12-15T12:13:00.003-06:00

Many in our younger generations have left or are leaving the modern American Church. While some appreciate their church roots, many more are scarred by them. A few years ago I was called out of the modern American Church in order to be an instrument of reformation in America. Even though it angers my pastor/leader friends when I bring up the fact that the church in America is in trouble- I still refuse to refrain from speaking truth.

God has given me a heart/burden for younger generations as well as a deepened understanding of what they are facing. God has helped me see that younger generations have a deep love for God as well as a passion to make a difference in this world for Him. The problem is that they are not interested in serving through the modern American Church. The modern American Church has turned them off for a variety of reasons. For one, they are tired of not seeing (the Jesus they have read about) show up in power and victory. They have watched their parents profess Christ without power and victory in their own lives. They long for something more than what the church offers them. They want to experience the God they have read about in Scriptures. The powerless modern American church has left them filled with hopelessness.

My Facebook friends list is growing mostly from younger generations. As I read their notes many of them love Jesus but cannot see the church in their lives. I don't need to post statistics here. You know I am correct when I say they have left or are leaving. Believe me when I say they want God without the church in her present form.

Through Disciple Driven Church and Sun Ministries we are launching New Testament movements by raising up young leaders who are being set free from the baggage and hopelessness of their lives. When these younger generations experience the God of power and freedom - they become totally committed to reaching others in their own generation with the same message of power and freedom.

THE SAD NEWS IS: I cannot turn to the modern American Church for prayer and for resources because they are busy doing their old thing. They have their own churches to run, resources are used up for their own mission. So I am appealing to you, my peers, friends and younger generations to pray and to give. We already know God is in this - the question is, do you want to be in this?

Please partner with us by praying for our young leaders and our efforts to show them a God of power and Glory like they have never seen before.

Also if God is speaking to you about supporting our efforts tax deductible gifts may be sent to: Disciple Driven Church - P.O. Box 876 - O'Fallon, MO 63366

The younger generations will be the generations that bring Holy Spirit empowered New Testament like Christianity back to America and around the world. God has a plan to use you (younger generations and my age group with resources) to bring reformation and transformation to America.

THANKS FOR WHATEVER YOU CAN DO AT THIS TIME. GOD IS DOING SOMETHING HUGE IN THE SPIRIT REALM.

Thots about Funerals...

2008-12-05T20:39:00.003-06:00

Funerals are not evangelistic moments, they are God moments!

For far too long I have felt the burden to use funerals for evangelistic purposes. I now know I was wrong! Funerals are times when Jesus wants to reveal Himself and His message of Hope! When funerals are used for evangelistic purposes people leave feeling guilt ridden and judged. That is not my job! My job in a funeral is to reintroduce the congregation and family to Jesus, a messenger of Good News. Jesus is the answer and He is the one who enters into our suffering. In the story we see that Jesus even wept with the family upon the death of a loved one! He weeps with us in our suffering.

I used to think that I was supposed to explain this or that passage when really I should have just told the stories of Jesus and applied them to where people were living. That's what my son, Matthew did in a recent family funeral. He simply told the stories of how Jesus enters into our lives and into our suffering and how He understands what we are going through. He held the audience captive with a relevant Jesus who is there (here) for everyone. He spoke of resentment and what it does to us and how we must trust God to do what is best.

I saw another side of Jesus and how to communicate. In the end, one after another was touched with truth about Jesus in such a way that they were drawn into His presence and into His work in all of our lives. I have learned that Jesus is not at His best in Church, a service of worship! He is at His best in the settings among the hurting and grieving. Jesus just showed up. His message was proclaimed and was natural and not forced evangelism! Jesus did what He Himself needed to do through the Holy Spirit.

I now see that most people already feel guilty for their sin. They don't need me to seize the moment of conviction/condemnation. The Holy Spirit has already revealed our need to seek Him in forgiveness. We all need to see Jesus in all of His splendor and glory as the One who cares for each of us in our stations in life. God is present - ever present with everyone!

I must bear the message of Jesus and His life and it is not my job to bring conviction, that's the job of the Holy Spirit. Because of this lesson, those in a recent family funeral - some who may be far from Jesus are the ones who saw Jesus up close and personal!

Funerals are God moments NOT our moments! We must show the world who Jesus is and how He enters into our lowest moments! He does have the answer - He is the answer! We need to rediscover the role of the Holy Spirit and how it greatly differs from ours.

If you will see this principle - those who are seeking and/or hurting will flock to your Jesus and mine! I recently witnessed this miracle of God's Holy Spirit and His power. I long for you to see it as well. If you will, others will see Jesus because of it.

Funerals are God opportunities - Not ours! Let's do our job while making room for God to do His!

From kingdomgrace...

2008-12-05T19:57:00.000-06:00

Disciples or Converts
December 3, 2008 ·

I have lots of thoughts swirling in my head about sterility, reproduction, and organic versus artificial life and growth. Let’s see if I can pull them together into anything coherent. I will start with a story…

When our kids were little, we raised butcher chickens so that they (the kids) would have daily chores. In the spring, we would get a box of cute little chicks in the mail. We kept them warm under lights and fed them high-octane feed. In a matter of months, the chickens that survived were fully grown and plump. Then we brought the chickens in crates to “visit” Fred.

These chickens were genetically engineered for fast growth. I am not sure if they would be classified as hybrid or mutant. My husband, Farmboy, says that in crops and grains, fast-growing hybrids also lack reproductive ability.
How this relates to discipleship

It is vitally important that we understand the genetic reality of spiritual life, the organic nature of spiritual growth, and the inherent reproductivity of the life of Christ, beginning with the reality that we are born of the Spirit and that all growth and reproduction is a function of the Spirit.

The gospel of the kingdom has been distorted in many ways. There is the evangelical gospel of personal salvation which reduces the gospel message to a guarantee of heaven and insurance from hell. The seeker gospel promises answers for our personal problems and felt needs. The prosperity gospel assures us that God only wants the best for us.

Church membership numbers are not necessarily an accurate reflection of growth in the kingdom. Megachurch member rosters are filled with transfer members. Counting decisions for Christ usually leads to exaggerated claims and coerced conversions. Not only that, it treats conversion as a single transaction and diminishes the ongoing nature and process of salvation, dismissing the reality that the journey to knowing God is a lifelong endeavor with many moments of decision and commitment.

So yeah, the missional church might not have large congregations of converts. Instead we are attempting to make disciples in a manner in which conversion is viewed in the context of establishing a long-term relationship with Jesus and with other believers which may never be reflected in the roster of a particular church organization.

This from David Watson:

Making disciples is about a relationship with Christ that results in a lifestyle of obedience to the commands of Christ which requires disciples to make more disciples. Making converts is about adhering to the doctrine of a particular faction, church, denomination, sect or religion. One can convert without becoming a disciple of Christ.

Artificial additives

I think that we often circumvent the real life of the Spirit in conversion methods, discipleship methods, and in the way that we function together as groups of believers. What are the ways that we tamper with natural growth and unintentionally cause lack of reproduction and other genetic deformities?

Sometimes, in a rush to notch our evangelism belt or perhaps our genuine fear of car and truck accidents, we rush people to a decision statement prematurely rather than trusting the work of the Spirit that is already occurring.

Then in a rush to transform our new converts into shiny, happy christians we train them into every aspect of cultural christianity rather than trusting the process of transformation by the Spirit that begins within before it becomes evident to others. The goal is to get them looking and acting like good christians as soon as possible.

So we feed them high-octane food in order to grow quickly.

Oops! Wrong story. Back to talking about church.

We give them high-octane teaching in order to grow quickly. Many formats for discipleship revolve around teaching which is evidence that we see growth as transfer of information and knowledge.

One of the things we have to ask ourselves is if our practices are effective in making disciples. Do our programs and services produce “fully devoted followers of Christ?” At what point did we begin interpreting that phrase to mean people who are committed to the needs of the church organization? When we disciple them into serving the programs of the church we are producing members, not necessarily disciples.
Organic growth - It isn’t pretty

(Cindy’s carrot)

Organic growth can be messy. It usually isn’t straightforward and doesn’t necessarily produce uniform results.

Are we willing to patiently allow the real work of transformation by the Spirit in a person’s life instead of expecting them to conform their behavior before it is an internal reality?

Will we ever trust that the Holy Spirit could catalyze and orchestrate community and gathering?

How insistent are we that individual and corporate lives look a certain way - uniform, ideal, polished?

How enamored are we with our methods?

If we were to admit the real lack of reproduction within the church, perhaps we would discover that the reason for our sterility is that we have abandoned our true genetic nature and failed to rely on the life of the Spirit for growth and reproduction.

You can read more at kingdomgrace.

All I can say is, Hmmmmmm!

2008-12-05T19:25:00.004-06:00

From the Christian Network, Ron Teed. Sorry for the format problems as seen below!

Full-Page Citizenship Challenge To Run Twice,
December 1st and 3rd
D.C. National Press Club Event: Dec 8th

An Open Letter
to Barack Obama:

Are you a Natural Born
Citizen of the U.S.?

Are you legally eligible to
hold the Office of President?

We The People Foundation
For Constitutional Education, Inc.
www.WeThePeopleFoundation.org
2458 Ridge Road Queensbury, NY 12804
info@GiveMeLiberty.org

December 1, 2008
Mr. Barack Obama
Barack Obama Transition Office
Kluczynski Federal Building
230 So. Dearborn St.
Chicago, Illinois 60604

Dear Mr. Obama:
Representing thousands of responsible American citizens who have also
taken an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America,
I am duty bound to call on you to remedy an apparent violation of the
Constitution.
Compelling evidence supports the claim that you are barred from holding
the Office of President by the “natural born citizen” clause of the U.S.
Constitution.

For instance:
• You have posted on the Internet an unsigned, forged and thoroughly
discredited, computer-generated birth form created in 2007, a form
that lacks vital information found on any original, hand signed
Certificate of Live Birth, such as hospital address, signature of
attending physician and age of mother.
• Hawaii Dept of Health will not confirm your assertion that you were born
in Hawaii.
• Legal affidavits state you were born in Kenya.
• Your grandmother is recorded on tape saying she attended your birth
in Kenya.
• U.S. Law in effect in 1961 denied U.S. citizenship to any child born
in Kenya if the father was Kenyan and the mother was not yet 19
years of age.
• In 1965, your mother legally relinquished whatever Kenyan or U.S.
citizenship she and you had by marrying an Indonesian and becoming
a naturalized Indonesian citizen.

You have repeatedly refused to provide evidence of your eligibility when
challenged to do so in a number of recent lawsuits. Instead, you have
been successful in having judges declare that they are powerless to order
you to prove your eligibility to assume the Office of President.
Incredibly, the judge in Hawaii actually said it would be an invasion of
your privacy for him to order access to your original birth certificate in
order to prove your eligibility to hold the Office of President.
Before you can legitimately exercise any of the powers of the President
you must meet all the criteria for eligibility established by the Constitution.
You are under a moral, legal, and fiduciary duty to proffer such evidence.
Should you assume the office as anyone but a bona fide natural born
citizen of the United States who has not relinquished that citizenship, you
would be inviting a national crisis that would undermine the domestic
peace and stability of the Nation.

For example:
• You would always be viewed by many Americans as a
poseur - a usurper .
• As a usurper , you would be unable to take the required “Oath or
Affirmation” on January 20 without committing the crime of perjury or
false swearing, for being ineligible you cannot faithfully execute the
Office of the President of the United States.
• You would be entitled to no allegiance, obedience or support from
the People.
• The Armed Forces would be under no legal obligation to remain
obedient to you.
• No civilian in the Executive Branch would be required to obey any of
your proclamations, Executive Orders or directives, as such orders
would be legally void.
• Your appointments of Judges to the Supreme Court would be void.
• Congress would not be able to pass any needed legislation because
it would not be able to acquire the signature of a bona fide President.
• Congress would be unable to remove you, a usurper , from the Office
of the President on Impeachment, inviting certain political chaos
including a potential for armed conflicts within the General
Government or among the States and the People to effect the
removal of such a usurper .

In consideration of the escalating constitutional crisis brought on by the
total lack of evidence needed to conclusively establish your eligibility,
I am compelled to serve you with this First Amendment Petition for a
Redress of this violation of the Constitution.

With all due respect, I ask that you immediately direct the appropriate
Hawaiian officials to allow access to the vault copy of your birth
certificate by our forensic scientists on Friday, Saturday and Sunday,
December 5, 6 and 7, 2008.

In addition, I ask that you deliver the following documentary evidence to
the National Press Club in Washington DC by 10 am on December 8, 2008,
marked for my attention:
• A certified copy of your original, signed “vault” birth certificate.
• Certified copies of your reissued and sealed birth certificates in the
names Barack Hussein Obama, Barry Soetoro, Barry Obama, Barack
Dunham and Barry Dunham.
• A certified copy of your Certification of Citizenship.
• A certified copy of your Oath of Allegiance taken upon age of maturity.
• Certified copies of your admission forms for Occidental College,
Columbia University and Harvard Law School.
• Certified copies of any legal documents changing your name.
Each member of the Electoral College, who is committed to casting a vote
on December 15, 2008, has a constitutional duty to make certain you are
a natural-born citizen. As of today, there is no evidence in the public
record (nor have you provided any) that defeats the claim that you are
barred by law from assuming the Office of President because you fail the
Constitution’s eligibility requirements.

All state Electors are now on Notice that unless you provide documentary
evidence before December 15, that conclusively establishes your eligibility,
they cannot cast a vote for you without committing treason to the Constitution.
“In a government of laws, the existence of the government will be imperiled
if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent,
the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people
by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in this urgent matter.

Sincerely,
Robert L. Schulz
Chairman

This Open Letter to Mr. Obama will be published in the Chicago Tribune on both Monday, December 1, 2008 and Wednesday, December 3, 2008.

A Huge opportunity!

2008-12-05T19:03:00.005-06:00

I have been out of touch for the past week. I went to see my parents and family over the Thanksgiving weekend. While there, my older brother's daughter died from an 18 month fight with cancer. We prayed for God to heal her and that is what God did -eternally. Dorie Lynn Carder, age 32, went to be with Jesus. She leaves behind a 14 year old daughter, Alexys and a 10 year old son, Barek! Please pray for them.

I had the privilege of doing the funeral along with my son Matthew Carder who brought the message of hope and healing. God truly showed up and all present entered into God's presence and glory.

I saw the power of the Word of God and the Holy Spirit to speak into the lives of those searching for answers. Thanks for being a vessel of the Good News, Matthew! And most of all, praise God for His presence and healing!

I've been out of touch with you while being in touch with those open to Jesus for such a time as this.

Random thoughts by Bill Hull

2008-11-21T11:45:00.003-06:00

Random thoughts on Evangelical Seminaries:

1. Seminaries do not provide students with a scriptural based philosophy of the Church on which to build a ministry.

2. The student will learn what Church is - but not what the Church does."

3. They do not teach pastors to lead Churches to make disciples who make disciples without polarizing the congregation.

4. Pastors are ill equipped to lead existing church into becoming disciple making churches.

The Planter's random thoughts on the thoughts above. Yes Bob has to comment! You must not be surprised here.

1. We need to see the Church as Jesus does... I like to look to China or Africa for a glimpse into what Jesus sees and desires for His Church worldwide.

2. I'm not convinced the students are ever given a correct understanding of who the Church is and if they did understood that - the doing part would become a natural outflow in our lives. We are taught how to become a great American Church with all the bells and whistles. But, we are powerless and our members are not truly "the captives who are set free".

3. You cannot lead existing Churches into total obedience and personal ownership of the Great Commission (with results and accountability) without polarization. We have called our members into something else when they joined our Churches. For the most part they didn't sign on for personal disciple making and total consecration to God with full freedom in Christ. Because of this, I am unemployable in the modern American Church arena. I insist on total consecration that leads to full freedom in Christ and personal ownership of the Great Commission. (Don't get me wrong, I am not looking for another modern American Church to pastor.)

4. If Pastors were equipped to lead modern American Churches in becoming disciple making Churches where the Great Commission is the main thing with Holy Spirit power to lead people into consecrated freedom in Christ - they can't! The membership demands on them, the maintenance of programs, the demands to attract more and more people along with the business demands on them to lead the organization leaves them overwhelmed with no time left to do the main thing.

Finally, I'm looking for leaders (young and old) who long to see the power of God unleashed and to learn how to lead disciples through a consecration process that leads to "captives being totally set free" who are also leading others into the same victory.

This deserves discussion...

2008-11-18T13:58:00.004-06:00

Deadly Detours?
Excerpt from a blog post by Hank Lamb

In 1993 Dr. Os Guinness, of the Trinity Forum Christian think tank in Washington, ...said that the Church needs to get back to "the first things of the Gospel."

Before I mention what these "first things" are, let me share what they are not. Bob Briner catalogued them quite succinctly in his compelling book, Deadly Detours: Seven Noble Causes that Keep Christians from Changing the World. He proclaimed seven deadly detours the church had taken during the 1980s and early 1990s. Here they are:
1. Squabbling over prayer in public school
2. Making Jesus a right-winger
3. Thwarting the homosexual agenda
4. Fighting other Christians over doctrinal purity
5. Shutting down the abortion clinic
6. Cleaning up Christian television
7. Fighting for family values
The first things of the Gospel are (1) that Jesus came and (2) that his kingdom is not of this world. Bob Briner says, "When we forget either of these, when we fail to build our lives and our ministries around them, we cease to be truly evangelical, and we inevitably take deadly detours and miss heavenly highways."

The Planter: Do you think Bob Briner is correct in his conclusion that the two things above (in bold) are the right first things first?

What do you think about Dr. Os Guinness and his comments above?

Humor me

2008-11-18T11:51:00.002-06:00

I had Jury selection duty yesterday. I arrived at 8:30 a.m. with 200 others. They were selecting jurors for three trials. My group had over 60 people in it. We were released from the selection process at 7:30 p.m. Of course it was a total waste of my time and others as well. Since I'm still an ordained pastor and having served as Law Enforcement Chaplain for two departments I'm not getting picked, especially in a child molestation case.

It was a circus and the defense attorney was a real piece of work. If it wasn't so painful it would have been hilarious. I did get to meet allot of people and I guess that makes up for it.

But what about this story...A Rooster get's arrested...in Illinois

Rooster arrested in Benton, Ill.
Becky Malkovich
THE SOUTHERN ILLINOISAN
11/04/2008

BENTON, Ill. -- A rooster played chicken in the wrong town.

That's the word from the downstate community of Benton, where police took a rooster into custody after it allegedly confronted a woman and her child.

Police Chief Mike O'Neill says the rooster has been bothering people lately, trying to keep them from getting where they want to go.

O'Neill says officers had enough on Monday and took the rooster into custody after what he described as a brief scuffle.

Nobody was injured and the rooster was thrown in an enclosed area near the police department. There, it lived on chicken feed and water until police located the owner. Chickens aren't allowed to live in Benton and the rooster was turned over to the owner only after he promised to find it a new home in the country.

Would you like to help raise Next Generation Leaders?

2008-11-14T15:35:00.001-06:00

Dear friends,

I have some staggering news for you. Of all the teens who grow up in the Church only 4% stay in the Church. We are losing the younger generations and something must be done. Don’t you agree?

In Disciple Driven Church and Sun Ministries we have a solution that will engage the hearts of young adults and release a small army to reach their own generation. This coming summer we are taking Next Generation college age students to Jackson Hole, Wyoming to do an extensive Disciple Making Internship. While focusing on their personal consecration to God (spiritual development) we will also train each of them how to multiply disciples & launch movements among their own generation.

I’m helping to raise funds for this project through our Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tag Program. You can learn more about Spiritual Prisoners Of War dog tags at the link below. We also have a fundraiser partnership if you want to raise funds for other Christian organizations as well.

We plan to take 30 students this year and even more next year.

Here’s how you can help us.
1. Pray for the Internship and those attending
2. Purchase & promote the sale of our P.O.W. dog tags.
3. Please visit Sun Ministries, INC and place your own online order today.

Thanks for you support, everyone makes a difference!

Bob Carder

YouTube - What if Starbucks Marketed Like a Church? A Parable.

2008-11-13T14:06:00.000-06:00

YouTube - What if Starbucks Marketed Like a Church? A Parable.

Sojourner writes

2008-11-13T13:40:00.000-06:00

When Church Services Leave People Still Needing Church

During a recent conversation, friends were telling me about their journey back into the life of the Church, and of their experiences visiting various congregations. One of these experiences easily stood out from the others:

It was a Sunday morning, and after loading their kids into the car they drove out to one of the larger, and fairly well known churches in their town. Once inside they felt overwhelmed by the performance-oriented "praise band", the constant use of the "big screen", and rally-like "feel" of the entire service. As my friend put it, "I got out of there feeling like I needed to go to church!"

The point, of course, is that much of what is marketed and portrayed as "church" ends up being something less than that. And today's postmodern population is figuring that out.

Yes, my friend was raised in the church, and was exposed to worship styles both liturgical and contemporary. But like so many -- young adults in particular -- he finds solace and comfort and strength from participating in liturgical worship and especially appreciates the ancient-future blend that characterizes the worship gatherings where I serve.

We evangelicals in particular have done violence to many of the ancient traditions of our faith, handed down to us through the centuries. In their place, we have appealed to business and marketing models for doing church, and have used pop-psychology and political correctness as a measuring stick. And although many of us are probably sick and tired of hearing how the Church's effectiveness and witness has been compromised by consumerism, materialism, and radical individualism -- the story of my friend's experience is a painful reminder that we certainly have done violence to the Church, and to her reputation. How sad, that people would come desiring to worship God along with His people, only to leave feeling like what they just experienced wasn't even worship!

Have we slipped THAT far? Are we THAT blind? Are church leaders even open to the idea that we've got it wrong, or is it just easier to blame everything on consumer-oriented congregants? See sojourner for more.

Tell me, please...we need to address this!

2008-11-11T13:47:00.004-06:00

Tell me what you think about the following statement I made in a previous comment section.

"If you fail to lead believers into full consecration to God you will also fail to lead them into being totally set free."

Set free from what? Examples: Sins we repented from, bondage, Satanic strong holds, generational sins, possession/oppression, open doors that need to be shut, replacing the lies of the enemy with the truth of God, anything that keeps us from being fully consecrated to God.

Jesus came to set the captives free, why then are so many believers still living in bondage from the past and not victorious in the present? Why then are so many professing believers not really free?

I recommend this excellent book and it's free

2008-11-07T10:05:00.003-06:00

From "The Simple/House Church Revolution" Book by Roger Thoman . The entire book can still be downloaded here.
I appreciate Rogers attempts to redefine the Church and her mission and doing it for free. Who does that these days? Thanks to Roger and Simple House Church for doing this for us. Also, at the end of this excerpt from the book I offer some thoughts on disciple-making. I am overall very impressed with this work.

"Church according to Miriam-Webster’s online dictionary:
1: a building for public and especially Christian worship
2: the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
3: a body or organization of religious believers: as a: the whole body of Christians b: denomination c: congregation
4: a public divine worship

Webster defines church according to the way this word is used today. I was taught this same definition as a little boy when I would put my hands together and recite the rhyme: “Here is the church, and here is the steeple; open the door and here are all the people.”

Jesus, however, introduced the term “church” with a very different meaning in mind. He used a word “ekklesia” that simply described a group or assembly of people. This is the original definition of the word. He described “church” as those people who were following Him—people walking in allegiance to him. People. His followers. Nothing more than that.

Jesus did not spend much time describing how to organize his people together or how to do meetings. Rather, his focus was on a lifestyle of loving others and obeying Him: “Go into all the world…” “Let your light shine…” “Do what you see the Father doing…” “Love one another…” Church, as defined by Jesus, was simply his followers living life for and with him.

Over the years, however, the word “church” began to include the many structures and forms that we added to the original meaning:
• Public meeting places (buildings or storefronts)
• Organizations of believers who get together to be led by a worship team and preached to by a pastor
• Denominations that we join

But, as John Eldredge reminds us:
Church is not a building. Church is not an event that takes place on Sundays. I know, it's how we've come to think of it. ‘I go to First Baptist.’ ‘We are members of St. Luke's.’ ‘Is it time to go to church?’ Much to our surprise, that is not how the Bible uses the term. Not at all. No. Not at all. Church is God’s people—those who are choosing to live life with Jesus… 24/7. That is it. Nothing more.

But don’t God’s people gather together? Yes. We do see gatherings take place in Scripture. Many gatherings. Most often informal and simple. Normally in homes (Romans 16:5). Everyone participated (1 Corinthians 14:26). They functioned as spiritual families that cared deeply for one another (Romans 12:10). Yet the focus of the church (God’s people) was a lifestyle of Jesus-following, rather than organizing events, attending programs, or joining organizations.

Perhaps the best way to describe the church of the New Testament is as small, vibrant, caring families of believers who are loving others and reproducing themselves into every corner of the world."

The Planter: This is a refreshing book, full of Truth! The author places far too much emphasis on House Churches, in my opinion. How we meet is not the important thing, we can meet as the Body anywhere. The heart of Jesus and His mission is the important thing. I appreciate the fact that he makes claim that all believers should make disciples, but he leaves out bringing new believers through a deliberate consecration/deliverance from sin process. Let me explain, Jesus came to set the captives free and in our disciple making movement here in St. Louis we insist that every believer be taken through a consecration process that leads to deliverance from sin, bondage, strongholds, open doors, demonic activity and the lies of the enemy are replaced with the Truth of God's Word. We have discovered (it took me long enough to see, too long) that without a consecration/deliverance emphasis the new follower isn't totally free to be victorious and nor is he/she Holy Spirit empowered. For us, this is the main thing in disciple making. Now that we have done this our new disciple makers having gone through a consecration/deliverance process are now leading their new disciples through the same. It is part of our disciple making culture.

In the end, we don't just have disciples who profess Christ, we have consecrated disciples who have victory over sin, strong accountability and Holy Spirit power in their lives. This is the really cool part. With the consecration element of our discipleship process we have solid Christ followers who obey Jesus regardless of the cost. Becoming a disciple of Jesus is not reduced to saying a sinners prayer but more about being totally consecrated to Him.

After praying I must post this...STINGING COLUMN!

2008-11-06T18:53:00.005-06:00

First let me say that Obama is a God placed leader for our future. I support him and so should all of us. He will be our next President if God wills it.

I have come to believe that the ineffectiveness of the Republican Party to be the direct result of the ineffectiveness of the modern American Church. When the church decided to move out of the larger cities of America - the needs of the people we are supposed to meet; the poor,the widows and orphans went largely unmet. The very people God warned us to take care of- are the people the church has largely forsaken. I didn't even mention that the church is not changing society! What happened to our light and salt and ability to lead people into consecration and freedom in Christ? That's another column.

Then came Obama, and he gave the homeless,widows, orphans and the poor a tremendous hope and he spoke to their needs and in return they (and others of course) rose up and elected him the next President of the United States. It was the people the church ignored who made a difference in this election. They spoke! We should listen. God is speaking, are we listening?

The thing that saddens me is that I have contributed to the ignorance of real needs in real places. I repent of that, but I also promise to never again ignore the people God told us to pay attention to. He cares about the poor, the needy, the homeless, the orphans and widows. I'm glad they will have an advocate in the White House. I know they have an advocate in heaven! Obama spoke to their needs and they heard him. They are not hearing the Church in America this way. Where is the voice and compassion of Jesus?

I just pray that the Church in America will wake up and take our rightful place in declaring the Glory of God by meeting the needs of people, the physical and spiritual, of those who all matter to God.

The Conservative Republican Party is where she is today because the modern American Church is where she is today, both are ineffective to meet the real needs of society. There is a correlation. We believers bear responsibility for not making a difference in the darkest and hardest places in America. We know the need is present - we have just come to ignore it. God, please forgive me, please!

To see what we are doing in Disciple Driven Church and Sun Ministries check us out.

You can help us make a difference. We need your help! Will you help us?

Chuck Coleson, "The Day After: Pray for our President and Nation"

2008-11-06T18:46:00.002-06:00

The Day After
Pray for Our President and Our Nation
November 5, 2008
Whether you voted for Barack Obama or John McCain, whether you’re recovering from your all-night celebration or drying the tears from your pillow, today’s a good day to remember the words of the apostle Paul: “I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness” (1 Timothy 2:1-3).

And the new President will surely need our prayers because he and his administration face huge, serious challenges to the health of our nation and to peace in the world—challenges that, in my opinion, neither he nor any government on earth will have the power to overcome without divine aid.

How has America come to this point? Why is our economy on the brink of disaster? Why is our culture so utterly depraved?

I can only think of what Alexandr Solzhenitsyn said about the catastrophic consequences of the Russian revolution. “I recall,” he said, “hearing a number of older people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.”
Solzhenitsyn was right. Indeed, I can’t find any better explanation for why we Americans find ourselves in the state we are in. We have forgotten God.
We have also forgotten that American democracy—indeed Western Civilization itself—is the product of the Judeo-Christian understanding of God and humanity. Without that revelation that man is created in the image of God, our founders never would have recognized the unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Indeed, as I and others like Rodney Stark have argued, modern science and education, liberal democracy, capitalism flourished in Western civilization precisely because of the Judeo-Christian worldview.

The attacks on Christianity these days are only going to intensify in the months ahead. But we must press on all the more to make a winsome witness. Those who would banish Christianity from American life are risking the very survival of American society.

Friends have asked me whether this economic crisis is God’s judgment upon us. I don’t know.
As I’ve re-read the Old Testament prophets recently, I couldn’t help but notice the recurring theme: The people of God turned away from Him and worshipped false idols. The result was always disaster.
Is God responsible for credit markets collapsing around the world? No. We’re responsible. Because instead of worshiping God, we’ve worshipped false idols of the marketplace, credit card companies and cheap mortgages. We’ve put our own appetites over our duties to God and neighbor.

So this is no time for Christians to go into the bunkers. No time to wail or moan over our retirement plans. This is a time to repent, to pray more, to give more. It’s a time for Christians to lead, encourage, and minister to a faltering country in a faltering economy.

This is a time for the Church to get serious about Christian discipleship. Enough cheap grace.

So pray for the new President and his administration. But most of all, my brothers and sisters, this is a time to love our neighbors and to hunger for God and His righteousness.

The Planter: Pointing out the ineffectiveness of the modern American Church is not the same as attacking Christianity. Christ followers must speak out against anything that undermines the cause and mission of Christ. If we are ineffective as the modern American Church, and we are, let's admit it and roll up our sleeves and get back in business for Jesus.

"Simple House Church Revolution" by Roger Thoman writes

2008-11-05T14:06:00.004-06:00

First let me say that I agree with Roger in his book that we need another type of leadership rather than hierarchical to support and strengthen free flowing movements of God.

Roger writes, "Shifting from hierarchical leadership to a serving and empowering type involves real change.

From my control to trusting the Spirit's control
From displaying one's own gifts to recovering the gifts of others
From guiding to making room for the Spirit to guide
From vision-leading to awakening the visions of others
From priest to a company of priests
From trying to be God's mouthpiece to helping others hear from God
From titles and positions to servants of no repute"

I thought this might help you get your mind off McCain losing the election. Ha Ha

Powerful Quote by Priscilla Shirer

2008-11-05T13:55:00.003-06:00

"In the first century Palestine Christianity was a community of believers. Then Christianity moved to Greece and became a philosophy. Then it moved to Rome and became an institution. Then it moved to Europe and became a culture. And then it moved to America and became a business. We need to get back to being a healthy, vibrant community of true Christ followers."

What do you think?

2008-11-05T13:43:00.003-06:00

Molong Nacua, wrote an article entitled “Being Church”

"Church is where Christ lives, not the place where we meet. It is
Christ-empowered people, a kingdom of priests for the purpose
of winning against the works of the devil and establishing God's
Kingdom (1 Cor. 3:17; Matt. 18:19; Ex. 19:6)… Christianity is not
about doing church, but being the church. Church is not some
place to go to participate in, but it is about being who you are in
Christ and thus experiencing His real life in you. Your
Christianity was never defined by attending a particular church. It
is defined by Christ in you. In other words, you are a Christian
24/7, not because you participate in a two-hour worship service,
but because Christ lives in you every minute of every day."

Now let's pray for him

2008-11-05T09:48:00.003-06:00

Now that we have a new President elect, Barack Obama, let's pray for he and his family and the decisions he has to make before he is sworn in as President in January.

I'm just praising God that Hillary isn't our new President. Ha Ha!

the election

2008-11-04T10:21:00.002-06:00

I'm just not ramped up like I used to be at election times like these. While I will be voting in a little while, I am just not concerned like everyone around me seems to be. I don't think it's apathy, I really believe that I have grown to see more important matters to get riled up about. They are spiritual matters. They are matters of eternal life and death for the human soul.

1. We are not electing the Savior of the world, we already have One.
2. We are not electing someone to fix our spiritual problems. They are personal, not national.
3. Our hope is not found in our next President, our hope is found in Jesus, who left His Holy Spirit to lead us in our consecration to God.

TODAY, I am declaring to the physical world and to the Spirit realm that God is God and that He alone is God. The election doesn't change that Truth. Our nation will not be worse or better because of the election results, our world will be worse or better based on our individual response to God. The answer to sin of all forms from gossip to abortion is found inside the human heart and through our willingness to obey or not obey God fully. Really the answer to our nations woes has always been present, God is God and He alone is God. Let's declare His glory and let's fully consecrate ourselves to Him in full and complete obedience.

I'm finding that some who profess Jesus and those who do not have a similar problem. It's a consecration problem. Are we fully and I mean totally consecrated to God in complete obedience? Does sin turn your stomach when you see it in your life?

On this election day 2008, it not a national problem,it's an individual problem, that we all face. Does you life declare before the world that God is God and He alone is God. Is your life so full of God that even the demons fear you?

God intends for all believers to be so full of Him that those around us including the demons are shaken with the Truth, as demonstrated through us, that God is God and He alone is God.

I really believe

2008-11-03T13:12:00.002-06:00

I really believe people can see our real hearts during an election time. I am appalled at some of the things I have heard people say about this or that person.

Let's respect the rights of others to vote for their candidates of choice. It is a right we all have come to appreciate. Before and after the election let's show the love of Christ and the power of the God to those near us. Let's also understand that some may be blinded or confused by the enemy in their choices. None of us are above missing something important here.

Let's try to see into the Spirit Realm and not just the Physical. God is orchestrating His glory in the Spirit Realm regardless of this election results. God placed us here as Christ Followers to declare His glory to all humankind and also to those demons who oppose Christ and us. If the Glory of God is not declared through our lives - we have failed to live our purpose for God.

Our chief task as believers is to reveal to the physical and spiritual world through our lives that God is God and He alone is God. Do those in the Spiritual and Physical realms see the Glory of God in power demonstrated through your life and mine?

When the demons - the enemies of God see us - are they convinced that the God we serve is God and that He alone is God? Do they see the power of the Holy Spirit? Do they run and hide their faces from our presence for fear of God's presence? We were made with a purpose to prove to the demons and the lost that God is at work in our lives, that He alone is the One true God at work in our lives.

In light of these thoughts - are the election results really that important? Or is something more important here? Don't get me wrong, we should all exercise our rights and responsibilities to vote. But really, God is still in control and God's glory must be displayed in our lives regardless of the election results. If God's glory is not being displayed in and through our lives, what then are we here for?

Is God's glory being revealed before those in the physical and spiritual realms this election period? While a neighbor of mine (a believer) placed her McCain/Palin sign in her yard, days later she became angered because another neighbor put a Obama/Biden sign in their yard. She later told me that they definitely placed the Obama sign out of spite.

See what I'm talking about? I don't care who votes for who - a neighbor is my neighbor and my friend and someone God loves and wants me to love. I want the Glory of God to be displayed on my street.

Regarding Snopes.com credibility

2008-11-03T13:07:00.002-06:00

The Truth: Ron Teed of Christian Networking speaks for Truth!

In October, 2008, stories began circulating via forwarded emails that the popular urban legends site Snopes.com was owned by liberals and was "in the tank" for presidential candidate Barack Obama.

As with many forwarded emails, the criticism did not include any example of what the writer of the email claimed was the difference between what Snopes.com reported and what Barack Obama had actually said.

Snopes.com is an excellent site that has become an authoritative source for information about urban legends and forwarded emails. We regard David and Barbara Mikkelson, the founders and operators of Snopes.com, as colleagues and professional researchers who have earned a good reputation for what they do.

We can give a unique perspective on this story because we do the same kind of work as Snopes.com and have sometimes been the target of similar criticism.

We've got a collection of emails that have come to TruthOrFiction.com accusing us of being "right wing whackos" as well as "liberals" and "communists." We've been suspected of being owned and operated by both Republicans and Democrats. We've been called "Christian propagandists" as well as "atheists pretending to be neutral." We occasionally receive emails that have elaborate theories about who "really" owns us and what our "real" motives are.

The bottom line is that if you try to report the truth, there will be those who don't like the truth you've reported and who will develop suspicions about why you did.

That, in our view, is what is happening with Snopes.
The 2008 presidential campaign has been one of the most intense and unique in our nation's history and has prompted more political eRumors than any presidential campaign in our experience, especially about Barack Obama.
These anti-Snopes emails have probably been prompted by someone who does not like Barack Obama and does not like the fact that Snopes (or TruthOrFiction.com for that matter) has debunked some of the emails that are not true about him.

One of the versions of the eRumor mentions TruthOrFiction.com and recommends our site. We appreciate that, but we want to say for the record that we've had nothing to do with this eRumor about Snopes.com and we condemn it.

THE PLANTER: As Christ followers let's let people see the credibility of Christ in our lives. Who I vote for is my business. But defaming someone has to be the business of Satan! Are there really Christ followers who do not want to hear the Truth? Are there those among our ranks who oppose Truth? I think you know the answer to that question.

Heart stirring...

2008-10-31T11:42:00.001-05:00

American soldier returned from Iraq speaks to Mr. Obama

The very end choked me up!

Is Obama being sued for not presenting his birth certificate and other documents to the public?

2008-10-27T14:00:00.006-05:00

Check out the video on You Tube

Can someone help me to confirm if this is true or not?

As of October 31, I can confirm this is true -but his birth certificate is valid according to snopes.com

He did have the American flag removed from his jet during refurbishment and he replaced the flag with his own symbol.

Why we should all be concerned..

2008-10-27T13:25:00.002-05:00

In a recent Washington Times article, "Why even the pious are leaving" should raise concern for all of us. Julia Duin, "a veteran reporter and the religion editor for the Washington times, has written an eye-opening account of one of the most vexing problems of our time: Americans even the most pious, are leaving their churches in droves."

Some facts Julia points out.

According to Barna, the number of unchurched is increasing by a rate of one million per year.

The youth especially, are not finding solace in contemporary churches. The author notes that at the current pace, only 4 percent of America's teens will end up as Bible believers. This is in sharp contrast to 35 percent of baby boomers and 65 percent of World War II generations.

THE PLANTER: While Julia does a good job pointing out the problems of the Church she has little to offer regarding solutions. What solutions do you recommend to deal with this American Church crisis? Let's put some stuff on the table. While contemplating your answers or suggestions, please remember that God is showing up all around the world in Acts 2 Pentecost fashion except America. What is missing? Why other places and why not America? Could it be that the answer is in the Word of God and that answer has always been the answer to unleash the Pentecost power of God among us? What are we missing?

Tell us what you think?

I asked for prayer and God heard the prayers

2008-10-27T13:12:00.003-05:00

Thanks for praying, the weekend was a huge success.

Our neighbor gathering - fishing contest was huge. It was a great time also around the campfire. All who wanted to catch fish did so. The largest fish caught was a 13 ½ inch large mouth bass caught by 8 or 9 year old Timothy. The most fish were caught by 4 year old Benjamin. Everyone had fun and we all grew closer together as neighbors. I think I gave out 35 or so prizes. It was fun to say the least.

The meeting yesterday with the Kenyan missionary to America (Stephen Karugia) and others went well also. I came away from that meeting with some really good connections. I was able to help a young gal with a heart passion to serve orphans in Africa get connected with my good friends (Amon & Erica Munyaneza) who run an orphanage/school in Africa. We are also praying that Erin will come into our disciple making movement and even attend one of our summer internships. Pray for her, God has His anointing on her. It was a God connection. Also, I met with a fire ball African American leader (Elder Alexander) who understands what it means to be a disciple and I am praying that this connection will lead to other kingdom advancements in the future. Another good thing is our P.O.W. Dog tags may end up helping our Kenyan Missionary raise funds for His work as well as benefiting the homeless in recovery on our end.

As for Terry and Suzette, the Disciple Driven Church Training weekend went well in Indiana. At the end of the meeting on Sunday evening the Holy Spirit showed up and confession, brokenness, and sharing went on for several more hours. There were also close to a dozen prisoners in a disciple making rehab program present for the entire weekend. Several of the rehab guys indicated that when they get out of prison they want to connect with us in St. Louis to make disciples who make disciples. They were Holy Spirit shaken by the training. That's what always happens.

God answered our prayer requests through you. Thanks for your partnership with us in the advancement of disciple making movements in Indiana and here in St. Louis this past weekend.

I love Declaring the Glory of God before the enemies of God who fear His glory.

Would you partner to pray for us?

2008-10-24T11:32:00.002-05:00

As I continue working with launching Disciple Making Movements I need prayer warriors who will do spiritual warfare praying. We need believers from around the world to cover us and our ministries in prayer.

Would you like to receive email prayer letters and ministry updates on Disciple Driven Church and Sun Ministries?

Email me if you would like to join with us in praying: bcarder@centurytel.net

Several opportunities needing prayer

2008-10-24T11:18:00.003-05:00

I have several prayer requests

Since living here in St. Louis metro connecting with our neighbors personally has been a priority of ours. When spiritual needs arise we pray for them and when a death occurred one neighbor came to us for care. Our neighborhood is our parish! Michelle and I are hosting a family fishing contest – wiener roast –smores and more at our community pond behind our house on Saturday. I have become the young community grandpa. Please pray for spiritual hunger. That’s tomorrow!

On Sunday afternoon I have a very important meeting with our team members Anthony and Maggie (our missionaries to the homeless) and several other leaders God recently connected us with. Two weeks ago Maggie and Anthony were ministering in a park to the homeless when two Kenyan Missionaries to America showed up. These guys know Richard Greene and are familiar with his teaching on Holy Spirit led disciple making movements. Exactly what we are doing! One of the guys, Joshua was in the movie “Invisible Children”. Another guy from Normandy, Mo also showed up and he has been preaching to the homeless for 7 years while praying for God to send more workers who understand how to make disciples who make disciples. SO THIS SUNDAY AT 3:00 P.M. Central Time we are all meeting together to figure out how we can all work together. It seems we are all on the same page and a partnership is in the works. Only God could orchestrate such a neat uniting among the brethren.

God is orchestrating something big here, please pray!

Would you like to help

2008-10-23T10:18:00.001-05:00

Would you and or your organization like to support our Spiritual P.O.W. Project to release prisoners spiritually? You can purchase a dog tag at sunministries.org

The Spiritual P.O.W. Project provides employment for recovering homeless people or needy through the Narrow Gate where we provide physical, emotional, educational and spiritual help for the poor and the homeless.

The Spiritual P.O.W. Project also provides salaries to missionaries working with the poor and the homeless. It provides a tool to focus prayer on the disciple making movement. It promotes unity in the Body of Christ. It offers a unique fundraiser for Christian groups. This is a simple and effective way for you to support these ministries both prayerfully and financially.

Would you join our cause and purchase a Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tag? See the link about for more information.

Does your organization

2008-10-20T15:47:00.009-05:00

Does your organization or group need a fundraiser that produces a 100% profit margin?

Visit Sun Ministries for information about our Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tag - Fundraiser. This is a God birthed idea given to Sun Ministries to benefit the homeless, those needing prayer, your organization and our mission to make disciples who make disciples.

You pay $3.25 for the Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tag and sell it for $6.50 and make 100% profit for your ministry/mission/school. That's a huge profit margin. Your group sells 5,000 name tags - your organization makes $16,250. And on top of that you are helping homeless people get into discipleship and recovery systems while every person who buys a tag is praying for a real person with a real need. You sell the tag, then place the order and we send you the tags within days.

Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tags are Prayer Tags. You get to pray for real people and real needs and you get to track those prayer requests on our data base to see when the prayer is answered. You can also suggest people and their need for salvation, healing, or deliverance.

Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tags are the lifeline for Recovering Homeless People. We pay the recovering homeless person a good wage to make the tags while we disciple them and lead them in recovery systems and back into society to reproduce other Christ followers.

Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tags benefit you and your organization, the person being prayed for, the homeless person getting off the streets while helping us put more boots on the ground to reach and rehabilitate this people group in America. Everyone wins - especially God's kingdom.

You can also purchase your own Spiritual P.O.W. Dog Tag online at the address above. Thanks for your support of this great cause.

We are leading for the future

2008-10-20T12:07:00.008-05:00

Disciple Driven Church and Sun Ministries have partnered in order to lead for the future.

We have discovered that disciples must all personally make disciples. When we lead people to Jesus it is neat to see each new believer also lead others to Jesus.

We have discovered that when people come to Jesus they must also be set free from Satanic strongholds, addictions, past pain, open doors and other things that weigh them down. We have now written a program to take people through these needed steps.

We have discovered new methods for bringing the unreached and our disciple makers together into volunteer projects to build relationships and enable them to serve the community together.

We have new summer internships to raise up Next Generation leaders for launching Holy Spirit led Disciple Making Movements across America. This summer we have openings for internships in Jackson Hole, Wyoming with one of the largest resort owners. Several colleges have partnered with us to also establish college credit for the students.

We have plans in place that are addressing social issues as it relates to the homeless, widows and orphans. God has given us the vehicle - Sun Ministries, Inc to guide us in these causes. Already we are serving these three groups with solutions.

Our Sun Ministries Spiritual P.O.W. dog tag - is a fund raising tool for organizations, Christian Schools, Youth Groups, other causes. This will help us get the homeless off the streets, employ missionaries and get people praying. These dog tags will be made by recovering homeless people in order to pay them a fair wage and get them into our recovery systems through the Narrow Gate. In addition each tag will have a first name of a person needing salvation, healing or deliverance. The dog tag is a reminder to pray for the person and the need. You also can look at our data base online to see when the prayer is answered and also to add more people to our data base for more names on dog tags.

This Spiritual P.O.W. project does four things. 1. It get's the homeless off the streets and into recovery programs. 2. It helps remind believer to pray for the salvation, healing or deliverance of real people in our data base. 3. Each dog tag costs your organization $3.25 and sells for $6.50 and you make 100% profit. 4. If allows you to individually purchase a dog tag online for $7.50 which covers shipping to you. Visit Sun Ministries website for more information or to make a purchase.

Our Sun Ministries Mission Store will soon have online products you can purchase. These products are hand made by African widows or orphans in our connections in Africa through Richard Greene. You can visit our sunministries website to see how your purchase helps widows and orphans.

You may schedule fundraisers, purchase dog tags and view African made products by visiting SunMinistries.org. Your partnerships help us make disciples who make disciples (praying for the lost, healing and deliverance) while also meeting the needs of the homeless, widows, orphans.

Disciple Driven Church and Sun Ministries are leading together for the future.

The atheist professor, his class and Jesus!

2008-10-17T10:25:00.001-05:00

A must see

Are you ready to listen now?

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Bill Easum writes in "The Primary Conversation of Our Time Becomes Clearer" blog post. read more at Bill Easum

"I'm coming to the end of this series and want to thank everyone who has contributed. Who knows you may find some of it in a book some day.

We are all indebted to the Emergent, Incarnational and Organic folks for so clearly calling to our attention the fact that Western Christianity is nowhere near what Jesus had in mind when he sent his disciples out into the world to build his church. We need to hear them. Moreover, we should be listening to why they feel so passionate about Western Christianity being either irrelevant or a counterfeit. Doing so may help some of us change our ways or avoid some of the mistakes made by institutional churches.

Perhaps now you see why these conversations lie at the heart of the future of Western Christianity. If the basic mission of Christianity is not the health or growth of institutional churches but churches that contribute to the expansion of the Kingdom of God, then the vast majority of established Western Christianity is virtually dead. The acknowledgment of this condition is one of the reasons why this conversation is so important. If our churches were making disciples, transforming their communities, and actually bringing the Kingdom to bear on this earth, the conversation around the Emergent, Attractional, Incarnational, and Organic folks would not be necessary. But it is, and all of us had better take heart and listen to what God is saying in this conversation."

The Planter: Bill Easum is heading in the right direction but still does a shotgun blast instead of the needed rifle shot. If every believer would just become obedient to the Great Commission there would be no need for all these discussions. We are often too busy being defensive to discern our times much less hear each other. We are like ships passing in the night or without rudders. Bill concludes with, "However, the Emergent, Incarnational, Attractional, and Organic (I'm none of these) conversations are not the primary conversations in which we should be engaged. The focus of our conversations should be on the multiplication of the Kingdom of God rather than the health or growth of the institutional church."

Did you hear me say, YAHHHHHH WHHHHHOOOO?

This blog is all about making disciples who make disciples and the fact that many disciples refuse to obey the Great Commission. I loved Bill's reference to the untethered church in America. Now that's more like it, baby!

Bill Easum on conversations

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1. Pay attention to the conversations going on today and see what you can learn from them. It may surprise you.
2. For those of you in spiritually alive congregations look for ways to mentor pastors in churches whose spiritual life is not so good.
3. For those of you in dying churches, get out of there as fast as you can and quit wasting your life.
4. Focus your people on the question - “What is it about my relationship with Jesus that the world cannot live without knowing?”
5. If you want your church to thrive in a pagan world you need to spend time with pagans. So get out of the office and help your members grow up spiritually.
6. Focus on growing people instead of growing your church.
7. Eliminate the missions committee and consider every leader a potential missionary to the West.
8. Focus on making your church so loving and warm people can’t help but grow.
9. Don’t encapsulate your people so firmly in church activities they lose touch with their pagan friends. Don’t extract them from the world.
10. And above all, find ways to participate in the reproductive movements underfoot today.

For more of Bill Easum.

The Planter: I can accept most of these conversation pieces in part but #8 is way off. When the church is loving and warm her members often stay in the holy huddle. We need more instances where Jesus turns over the tables, pew and chairs of those being disobedient to His mission the Great Commission. I love point #3.

Chuck Coleson shares the bad news

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The Party's Over
Bailing Out America
October 15, 2008
Last week I opened the New York Times—and read one of the most powerful ads I’ve ever seen.

The ad was paid for by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. I had the privilege of working with Pete Peterson when we were in the White House together—he’s a shrewd guy who became Secretary of Commerce and made a small fortune in the financial world. That small fortune he’s now spending to educate the American people. His message in the advertisement was a heroic call to Americans to take over the political process before it’s too late.

In his two-page ad in the Times, Peterson outlines the problem facing the American economy: “As disruptive and damaging as today’s mortgage sub-prime crisis is,” he warns, “We’re looking at a “super sub-prime” crisis, which, if left unaddressed, will hurt many more Americans—and hurt much worse.”

Among many inconvenient truths: “Each household’s share of the nation’s $53 trillion debt is $455,000—almost 10 times the median household income. This is unfinanceable!” he clearly warns.

Vital research and development, infrastructure, and children’s programs are already getting squeezed, Peterson writes; “We cannot grow our way out of the problems or solve them simply by cutting earmarks and pork-barrel spending.” We could do these things, plus cancel the Bush tax cuts, end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—and we would still be only 15 percent of the way to solvency.

Peterson has a few hard questions to ask our presidential candidates. How, for example, do they plan to slow the rate of growth in health care costs that threaten to bankrupt America? How will they encourage the country to save more and reduce our dangerous dependence on foreign lenders? And he wants to know if they support a bi-partisan commission to review everything on the table and make recommendations with a guaranteed up-or-down vote by the next Congress.

Congressman Frank Wolf, my friend, has proposed such a commission, called SAFE—which I’ve talked about on BreakPoint before. It would examine all entitlements, identify what we can afford—and slash what we cannot. The commission would submit its proposals to Congress for an up-or-down vote. (The only changes permitted would be those that leave the long-term budget impact unchanged.)

Peterson is correctly warning us that no political promise is going to solve our problems. The only thing that will solve it is Americans being willing to accept a whole new way of life. We need to be willing to share sacrifices and make very tough choices. No more politicians promising to socialize everything, which will simply make a horrific problem even worse.

If you visit our website, BreakPoint dot org, you can find the link to the New York Times ad. I urge you to read it, sign the petition, and invite your friends to do the same thing.

Our leaders need to sober up. The sad truth is, they will only do so if we force them to. A grassroots campaign to support SAFE would be a very good start—in fact, the only plan that has any chance of solving this horrific problem.

We have to take back our government—and put America on its feet again. If we don’t, our children and grandchildren will pay the price for generations yet to come.

Disciple Driven Church

2008-10-14T22:53:00.004-05:00

The formation of the Disciple Driven Church is the result of our sincere desire to see Spirit filled Disciple Making at the heart of what all believers naturally do.

We believe that this is what's been missing in the modern American Church. Restoring the Great Commission back to her rightful place, leading new believers into total freedom and teaching them to walk in the Spirit are what will bring Holy Spirit transformation back to America. God longs to work in a new way for this day through His Bride - the Church.

Are we?

2008-10-14T22:47:00.001-05:00

Are we really satisfied with what God is doing in the modern American Church?

Be honest, are you satisfied or do you hunger for more?

God has so much more to offer.

When

2008-10-14T22:33:00.000-05:00

When there are no comments it usually means truth!

We need

2008-10-14T10:18:00.000-05:00

We need to become once again, the Church full of reckless acts of obedience.

Let's take care of the sheep

2008-10-14T10:15:00.002-05:00

I'm growing weary of the arguments that say we must spend our time on earth taking care of the sheep. Remember Jesus left the 99 to find the one lost sheep. There seems to be a lesson here. Remember (we) the already reached are not the point, the lost is.

If the lost is the point why isn't the lost our point?

We have developed...

2008-10-14T10:12:00.002-05:00

In the modern American Church we have become really good at developing a Church centric view of the kingdom. We now need to return to a Christ centric view of ministry by looking once again at the reason he came and died and rose again.

I don't really think God is concerned with who gathers. We are not the point. The lost world is. Now what will we do about it?

We don't

2008-10-14T10:09:00.002-05:00

We don't get to invite God to join with us on our mission.

God gets to invite us to join with Him on His mission.

We have our wonderful mission statements but then again our people are still not engaging the Great Commission personally. I must ask, whose mission are you on. His? Or Yours?

There is hunger

2008-10-14T10:07:00.003-05:00

In the world there is a growing hunger for spiritual vitality...

And yet, only Christian people are nervous in the streets where they live, work and play.

The King is in the streets, where every believer should be about kingdom business.

God is NOT most home

2008-10-14T10:06:00.002-05:00

God is not most Home in the church where we gather.

God is most home in world when the church scatters.

The Church is and is not.

2008-10-14T10:02:00.002-05:00

The church is not a destination..that was never God's intent.

The Church is supposed to be on mission with God.

The church is supposed to be a verb not a noun.

As the church we are connectors and conduits for the Holy Spirit to reach people who need Him.

Bad news

2008-10-14T09:59:00.002-05:00

The King is not waiting for the modern American Church to get the job done.

The King is working in Pentecost fashion all around the world but here.

The King will not wait for us to decide to join Him in another Pentecost - At this moment Pentecost is happening somewhere in the world.

Shift needed in America

2008-10-14T09:57:00.002-05:00

We need a huge shift in how we view the kingdom of God in America:

Instead of looking at the kingdom through church lenses

We need to view the church through kingdom lenses.

When this happens, disciple making will become a personal priority for all.

God is still in control

2008-10-13T10:54:00.000-05:00

NO MATTER
WHO WINS THE ELECTION

1. The Bible will still have all the answers.

2. Prayer will still work.

3. The Holy Spirit will still move.

4. God will still inhabit the praises of His people.

5. There will still be God-anointed teaching and healing.

6. There will still be singing of praise to God.

7. God will still pour out blessings upon His people.

8. There will still be room at the Cross.

9. Jesus will still love you.

10. Jesus will still save the lost.

ISN'T IT GREAT TO KNOW WHO IS REALLY IN CONTROL!

On quitting the Modern American Church...

2008-10-09T11:21:00.003-05:00

Julia Duin wrote a recent book entitled, "Quitting Church: Why the Faithful are Fleeing and What To Do About It." While I have only read a few excerpts it is an interesting title for a book. I suspect that the reasons Julia gives would be different than mine. Not sure.

Let me ask you. Why do you think the Faithful are Fleeing? Why did you Flee the modern American Church? Perhaps we can learn something fresh and new. Depending on the comments this might be painful. But let's try hard to hear one another. Sometimes I think we get too defensive and end up passing each other rather that hearing and understanding one another.

One way to avoid misunderstanding would be to ask more questions before making judgments.

Again the questions, "Why do you think the Faithful are Fleeing? Why did you Flee the modern American Church?" I'll weigh in on this later. My story is some story.

Wolfgang Simpson writes,

2008-10-08T09:37:00.000-05:00

Wolfgang Simson describes his vision of what the church, unhindered, is becoming:

"[I dream of a] church, which does not need huge amounts of money, or rhetoric, control and manipulation, which can do without powerful and charismatic heroes, which is non-religious at heart, which can thrill people to the core, make them lose their tongues out of sheer joy and astonishment, and simply teach us The Way to live. A church which not only has a message, but is the message. Something which spreads like an unstoppable virus, infects whatever it touches, and ultimately covers the earth with the glory and knowledge of God."

The Planter: I share his dream!

Did someone say, STORIES?

2008-10-08T09:02:00.004-05:00

By some incredible act of grace, I have been allowed to be in the midst of a Holy Spirit birthed disciple making movement of God.

Let me share this excerpt from my life in this new work.

Take our worship gatherings as an example. Our gatherings take virtually no human planning or preparation other than sitting at the feet of Jesus daily. When all the gifts of the Body are working together the worship gathering looks more like a carefully planned Holy Spirit orchestra resulting in a God like performance. As God prompts believers those believers share and then they pray and then rebuke or correct and then they share a word from the Lord or whatever. No two gatherings are ever the same because God works through the entire Church family of God. In the end there is always a Holy Spirit orchestrated theme or threads for the day.

I love the fact that none of this is man driven. It's all about the Holy Spirit working His orchestration in the lives of God's children. I love watching the Church function as God intended.

Brooks with Simple Church wrote,

2008-10-08T08:50:00.002-05:00

"The Revolution is happening – it’s happening all over the world. We are in a Reformation. Acknowledge it or not. Be a part of it or not. Jesus longs for his church to come alive, to become a living, breathing, organism. He longs for us to be in a real, live, intimate relationship with Him, regardless of others – and then in real, live relationship with our families – earthly and spiritual. And, He’s begging us to come alive, be who we are as individuals, alive and free in Him, telling the world who and what He has done for us…

What I saw in Kenya, I see in America and I see in other parts of the Christianized world. The enemy accepts that Christianity is in the world… but if he can just contain us, keep us from contaminating others, there’s little to worry about. If he can contain us in buildings, then the world will not know the truth and few will be set free. But what I saw in Kenya, I also see in America and other parts of the world. The virus is leaking. The Reformation of the 21st Century, led by the Holy Spirit, is taking Christianity out of containers into the open spaces of the neighborhoods and nations of the world."

The Planter: This is also what I am seeing. WOW! Excellent, Brooks! The containment factor is what drives me over the cliff from time to time. I love the phrase, "taking Christianity out of containers into the open spaces of the neighborhoods and nations of the world." This excites me.

Is it?

2008-10-08T08:38:00.002-05:00

Tell me what you think...

Is "traditionalism" a sin in the modern American Church?

Let's do this...

2008-10-07T14:54:00.000-05:00

Let's focus on restoring the Great Commission to its proper place in our life, expanding our vision for what God is doing in the world, and finding our role in fulfilling God’s purpose.

Brilliant post!

Consider this

2008-10-07T14:47:00.002-05:00

Is it possible that some passages of Scripture were never meant to be understood by all until the right time God chooses to disclose (reveal) the deeper meaning of the passage through His Holy Spirit?

I welcome...

2008-10-07T11:32:00.003-05:00

I welcome personal attacks here, they are revealing more than the debater intends.

When...

2008-10-07T11:24:00.000-05:00

When the message is intolerable or to hard to handle the personal attacks roll in.

The problem is with the message not the messenger.

This is the ONLY answer

2008-10-07T10:20:00.003-05:00

If we are ever to change the world for Christ - every believer will need to pick up personal responsibility for making disciples who must also make disciples.

This is the theme of this entire blog.

It is amazing...

2008-10-07T10:10:00.002-05:00

It is amazing how much much trouble one can make for himself when he points out the sin of not personally engaging the Great Commission.

Wow I feel like someone knocked me dead in the head.

Good ole Chuck...

2008-10-07T09:52:00.003-05:00

"Regardless of your elevated position or high profile or row of degrees or endliss list of achievements, just stay real. Junk any idea that you deserve some kind of pat on the back or a nice gold wristwatch for a job well done. If you did it for God, He has an infinite number of unseen ways to reward you. If you did it to impress others, no wonder you're clawing for glory."

More wise words from Good ole Chuck Swindoll.

See the words of Jesus in Luke 14:11, "For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

Good ole Chuck...

2008-10-07T09:48:00.002-05:00

"Go and do likewise." Supporting, comforting, helping...your arm around the hunched shoulder of another...your smile saying "try again" to someone who's convinced it's curtains...your cup of cool water held up to a brother's cracked lips, reassuring and reaffirming that he is loved."

Appropriate words from Chuck Swindoll, wise words for today.

It's a great day..

2008-10-07T09:38:00.002-05:00

The Spirit of God is a God of Revelation and He is still restoring sight to the blind, sound to the deaf and encouragement to the weary.

The Church...

2008-10-06T21:12:00.002-05:00

The modern American Church will even kill her prophetic voice.

Why?

Is it really worth it?

Kill the prophet but receive God's judgment.

Is this really the choice you want?

For my stand on making disciples....

2008-10-06T21:10:00.002-05:00

I am losing pastoral friends and even family.

WHY?

For me....

2008-10-06T21:08:00.002-05:00

I love the world...
I love the lost...and want to reach them...
It's the religious I can't stand...

They are trying to kill me.

And I cannot figure out why...

Why? Can someone help me here?

About Teaching to Obey

2008-10-06T15:01:00.002-05:00

We were told by Jesus that all disciples needed to be taught to obey all things.

Does our lack of obedience to the Great Commission mean that we failed to teach disciples to obey all things? Have we failed to obey the teaching of all disciples to obey all the commands?

About fighting

2008-10-06T14:56:00.004-05:00

Someone suggested I was fighting the wrong battle, the church.

I'm not fighting the Body of Christ - the Church - I am pushing against the practices or lack of correct practices of the Church. Why would I fight something I am part of - the Body of Christ. I'm pushing for a return back to New Testament obedience and personal responsibility to the Great Commission as a mandate for all who follow Christ.

We need a new ideology - see post down the line.

Making disciple is something all Christ followers should do naturally but then again we were not taught to obey that part, right?

About Anger...

2008-10-06T14:52:00.001-05:00

I think God still gets really angry when we sin and really really angry when we refuse to obey Him.

We should be angry about the right things. God says, in our anger, sin not!

About Blog Comments

2008-10-06T14:49:00.003-05:00

I have been looking at a common thread...among comments, that is.

It seems that those (me too) making comments about the comments of others are sometimes guilty of the same kinds of things they accuse others of.

It's just a weird observation. We are all and often looking in the mirror when we speak out in anger or frustration. I love this part because we all need forgiveness and repentance and Jesus always freely gives it freely to us. The problem is - we don't always know we are looking in the mirror when we speak or write.

ABOUT My Blog

2008-10-06T14:45:00.002-05:00

It's my blog and I get to say what I want to, how I want to say it and when I want to say it. It is my BLOG! Right?

I know some won't like this. But the Truth is, you can start your own blog and do it your way. You can start today if you want to.

Once in a while someone sends me an email (like today) telling me how I should blog. And then they have the nerve to call me arrogant.

About TRUTH

2008-10-06T14:42:00.002-05:00

Truth must be spoken always and in all ways. TRUTH doesn't need to be tempered with anything.

We must "take it or leave it" when it comes to TRUTH!

About Persecution

2008-10-06T14:41:00.001-05:00

It is the persecution I have received from the modern American Church that drives me to my knees.

About Discipleship

2008-10-06T14:40:00.004-05:00

We must make disciples at risk of losing everything else if that's what it takes.

Lost people matter to Jesus and they must matter to us. The only thing God will rescue from this planet are those captives who have been set free. Nothing else matters to Him at that time.

About Truth and Love

2008-10-06T14:37:00.002-05:00

Truth is HARD!

Love is hard and soft depending on the situation and what is needed.

It takes a person who really loves to share hard truth with us.

About condemnation...

2008-10-06T14:31:00.002-05:00

Condemnation occurs when there is NO HOPE! When God says you cannot enter heaven - that's condemnation.

While the modern American Church has failed to take the Great Commission seriously as a personal mandate, every believe can choose to obey the supreme Great Commission today.

Our call to bring all believers back to personally acting on/obeying the Great Commission mandate is one filled with hope. All we need is obedience and you have HOPE!

This Blog is filled with HOPE for fulfilling the Great Commission and ushering in the Return of Christ with active obedience to the Great Commission.

IF U?

2008-10-06T14:20:00.002-05:00

IF YOU see the need for a rebirth of disciple making and obedience to the Great Commission for all Christ followers...

IF YOU want to know more about how disciple making movements are birthed and what they look like...

AND, IF YOU are interesting in being a part of this incredible Holy Spirit birthed work, THEN...

Disciple Driven Church leaders would like to meet you and share resources on getting the job done.

You can also email me: bcarder@centurytel.net

We know God is raising up a remnant to take the disciple making charge seriously.

Nonsense & Warnings

2008-10-06T13:21:00.003-05:00

There is a whole lot of nonsense appearing on my computer screen these days.

If you do not (or refuse to) believe that all believers should make disciples who make disciples and that they (we) should repent for our disobedience to the Great Commission you should save yourself from this blog.

It's all about the fulfillment of the Great Commission as the personal responsibility to make disciple who themselves make disciples.

The state of the American Church is the direct result of disobedience to the Great Commission mandate of God and the leaders failure to hold everyone accountable to this command. It is not debatable. It never will.

This is what this blog is all about and we make no apologies for pointing this out. I'm willing to pay whatever price to preach or speak this truth and I am already full of holes, shot by the * and her * - thank you very much! I'm smiling!

New Wine - New Wine Skins - New Release

2008-10-06T10:09:00.006-05:00

Chuck Swindoll writes, "Our Lord distinguished between things that are essential (the wine: that is primary...the timeless and changeless gospel) and things that are useful but not primary (the skins:that which is secondary...like structures, traditions and fixed patterns of doing things.)

Jesus says, "He told them this parable: 'No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new garment will not match the old. And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. And no one after drinking the old wine wants the new, for he says, The old is better.'"

Isn't this a picture of the modern American Church? Our structures, traditions and fixed patterns for doing things have become primary instead of secondary? Isn't it true that we are comfortable to live in the old wine skin even at the expense of walking into a Holy Spirit revealed work? So many are saying, "The old wine is better."

It will take a new wine - a revisit back to what is really primary -the Gospel as applied in full Holy Spirit "rhema" anointing/importance and to do this we need to move out of the old skin and into new wine skins for ministry. A new Holy spirit revealed work "wine" demands new a wine skin.

We have confused the wine and wine skins. They are not on the same level nor are they the same thing.

God is revealing a new wine Holy Spirit revealed work for our day around the Great Commission mandate and now we need a new wine skin to hold it/guide it/express it. This is why I believe God has birthed the Disciple Driven Church. We had no choice but to move out so that we could express and walk in obedience in a newly Holy Spirit revealed WINE. This cannot be done in old wine skins. There is no way the modern American Church will personally and deliberately assume responsibility for the Great Commission mandate. This charge to obey is always met with resistance, so it seems. The personal engagement of the Great Commission is not what we were called into by man - it is what we have all been called into by God.

This call to personally obey the Great Commission for all believers must be a released work. As believers assume their responsibility to obey -they must be released to do so. As groups assume this Great Commission responsibility they must be released as well. If it is not released - living in this Truth will burst the old skins.

Let's talk about this - old/new wine, old/new wineskins, and keep/release ministry. I pray the Holy Spirit will open up some eyes on this post.

I REPENT BEFORE THE WORLD...

2008-10-06T09:59:00.002-05:00

Since many of you only know me by and through my postings I can assume that you do not really know me. I do know that when I have called sin what it is in the modern American Church some leaders have chosen to get defensive and really angry.

I get really saddened because I am calling out the modern American Church on their sin and that call is rejected. We need Great Commission obedience.

I want to repent this morning. Not for calling the modern American Church out to repent for their sin, but for my own neglect.

I pastored for 25+ years and had some great congregations. But I failed to call them into repentance for not obeying the Great Commission. I failed to call all believers to faithfully and personally engage the Great Commission. The Great Commission mandate is for all believers and no one is off the hook in their responsibility. If the world is ever to be won to Christ - it will take all of us walking and living in complete obedience to the Great Commission.

I repent for letting people slide on the Greatest Commission ever spoken to mankind by God.

May God have mercy on my soul.

As we move into...

2008-10-03T13:01:00.002-05:00

As we move away from existing structures and into the Disciple Driven Church, a movement of Holy Spirit led and empowered disciple making, we only ask for blessing, release and unity.

Is that to much to hope for? Sadly, I'm beginning to see that it is.

My friend Dave DeVries posted the following on his blog

2008-10-03T12:57:00.001-05:00

Most Christians in America don’t understand the mission of the church. They view buildings as the “church” and invite people to come to their church building. They “entrust” the true mission of the church to trained professionals who leave their own culture to reach those in another culture with the gospel. The absence of missional churches, missional leaders and missional movements in America must be addressed.

The numbers are going up...

2008-10-02T10:27:00.002-05:00

David Fitch posted the following on his blog:
"The Numbers Are Going Up But Something Doesn't Feel Right"
Monday, September 22, 2008

I'm out traveling and leading seminars with pastors in Eastern Pennsylvania for a few days. Today I was traveling with Craig Weidman assistant to the District Superintendent in the C&MA East PA District. He was telling me a story out of his own ministry when he described an experience that sounded all too familiar at Life on the Vine. He said, "the numbers were going up but something didn't feel right." He was describing the changes that were happening at a prior church ministry when numbers started going up meanwhile the ethos of the gathering was changing. He asked what do you do with that?

We've been experiencing the same thing at Life on the Vine and we're asking the same question. There's a certain excitement being generated. People are hearing about the church. The liturgical shape of our services is beginning to make sense to people. A disposition is being formed in the gathering to receive the presence of Christ in our midst. Yet even with all this we sense a certain percentage of people are coming to watch, not participate (in Mission). There's a larger group coming to see what's going on with a limited commitment to community and Mission. The church has taken on an attractional element. "The numbers are going up but something doesn't feel right."

Read the rest of the story at reclaiming the mission

This is important...

2008-10-02T10:07:00.003-05:00

In our disciples making disciples movement it is important for us that we teach a correct understanding of the Church.

The Church is the gathered and scattered Body of Christ.

Our main thrust is not to have more people in the gathering - that is not our charge. Our charge in that in our scattering we will bring more people into the kingdom.

Reaching people for our gathering is not our goal. Scattering to reach people for Christ is.

Political diversion - not division please!

2008-10-01T11:53:00.004-05:00

I thought it would be fun to take a few minutes and discuss politics...I was always told not to talk about politics, religion or money. This blog discusses all three. I must be nuts.

Ron Teed of the Christian Network posted this comment, "I believe the best hope of the United States for the future in the form of a mortal human being is Sarah Palin. I have a pretty good track record in evaluating people and I believe Sarah will stand up to any and all unethical behavior. Barak Obama will allow this corruption to go on as long as it serves his need for power and status. John McCain is a good and honorable man and I believe he'll allow Sarah to blaze her own trail."

I do know for sure that Sarah Palin loves Jesus very much. I have heard her testimony and she is an authentic follower of Christ. What about Ron's comments. Let's weigh in here.

New ideology???

2008-10-01T11:17:00.003-05:00

I posted this down the line and no one bit so let me bring part of what I wrote to the top here. We seem to confuse statements like, "What is Church?" & "Wath does the Church do?" Perhaps in our search for these answers aren't we really looking for a new ideology. What if every American Pastor would call into question the structures and practices of the modern American Church. That ain't gonna happen! It cannot because everyone is too busy defending what is broken and refusing to see that there are solutions out here not being considered.

Bill Hull speaks to this in The Disciple Making Pastor, "The disciple making pastor is a biblical ideologue. The word ideology was first used during the French Revolution. It means 'revolution for structural change; Disciple making at the heart of the local church is revolutionary ideology calling for fundamental change within the church. While he makes no plans to storm the Bastille, the pastor does call into question the structures and priorities of the modern church."

I personally believe that there is not even a remote chance that every American pastor would call into question the structures and practices of the modern American Church. So in order for me to be able to express myself as a biblical ideologue I must move out of geographical restrictions and hindering structures of control in order to be the Disciple making pastor/leader God has called me too.

On this blog I have called into question the structures and priorities of the American modern Church and when I have done so I have been met with strong resistance and anger. I have lost very close friends because I do not agree with them and their practices in ministry. I don't know what happened to - Let's agree to disagree agreeably. That's part of the price I am paying for making the Great Commission a supreme mandate for all Christ followers as a personal and deliberate act of obedience. (I'm not making this - Jesus made this the priority).

Since we were unable to bring about the fundamental changes needed to make us "geographically unrestricted" and "structurally unhindered" we had to leave our birthing denomination. Believe me when I say we went to the top and tried to discover the needed bridge. It was not an option, politics prevailed over the mission. Our decision came with fasting and prayer.

My friend San speaks...

2008-09-30T20:11:00.001-05:00

About our decision to move forward with Disciple Driven Church,
San says, "Bob, Congratulations! It was time for you to lead this ministry without strings attached.

Blessings!"

The Planter: Thanks San for undying support.

How sad...

2008-09-30T19:25:00.002-05:00

I discovered today that there is more concern about denominational growth/retention than about the kingdom.

I'm sad and even more sad that the kingdom comes in second here.

Please don't ask me to prove it even though I can.

Disciple Driven Church...

2008-09-30T11:43:00.005-05:00

We are now officially part of the Disciple Driven Church, a disciple making movement that officially reaches across America for Christ. We are no longer affiliated with the Missionary Church and the Midwest District.

Becoming an official Church movement with tax deductible status was no small task. We felt that in order to better serve the mission of making disciples who make disciples we needed to be geographically unrestricted and structurally unhindered. While we will always love the Missionary Church for birthing us, this step has become necessary to move forward across America in order to birth new movements of Holy Spirit led disciple making.

We are excited about what God is doing and will do in raising up exponential disciple making movements across America.

The Disciple Driven Church....

2008-09-30T10:58:00.002-05:00

The Disciple Driven Church is:

Holy Spirit led,
geographically unrestricted,
structurally unhindered,
Holy Spirit empowered,
where all Christ followers,
personally make disciples,
who make disciples,
who themselves make disciples!

You can't always...

2008-09-28T20:21:00.004-05:00

You can't always do what God is calling you to do while remaining in the old wine skin.

The Holy Spirit still breaths new wine into new skins. History reveals this truth over and over again.

God is the great God of creativity. Just look around at people with their gifts, at trees and her leafs, at flowers of all color, just to name a few.

Holy Spirit work through the Body of Christ is expressed beautifully in the redemptive work He calls us all into. The Holy Spirit still breaths life into new wine skins. And the new wine needs the new skin to carry her. Only a creative God could do this over and over again. He has to do this when we humans stall out His redemptive plan.

Sometimes you gotta be called out of the old and into the new for His redemptive work to continue at the level He leads. We don't get to make new wine skins. The Holy Spirit does that for us. He empowers the work, calls us into it and then provides the wine skins to care for it.