Do you think?
Do you think most believers in America believe the Great Commission was personally mandated for each of us to follow and obey?
Do we act like we believe it?
Very few will post on this one.
posted by Bob Carder @ 6:01 PM
11 comments
11 Comments:
Bob, I see you have been striking out a lot on your posts lately. No comments on most.
I cannot tell you what most believe. I have been speaking to a lot of friends lately about this topic. All of them agree this is manadated to each believer but very few are actually doing it. The disconnect is amazing. The ones I find that are doing it are the ones most frustrated by the current American church. This is nothing scientific, just what I have found in my own life.
dear friend,
well, i seem to have stirred your pot a bit in our last conversation. and you notice that i keep coming back for more.
i don't know what most believe. i have to say that in all my years of faith, i'm never sure whether i believe the Great Commission was ever intended for every believer. i don't know, i guess i just get tired of the guilt-tripping that i've heard over and over and over that makes me feel that unless i'm pursuing an evangelistic agenda with every person i come into contact with, i'm shirking on my duties as a believer. so, I don't know, maybe the GC was intended for every believer, maybe it wasn't. Are there any other New Testament references to the Great Commission that lead us to believe the early church expected all believers to be discipling others? i can't think of any right off, but i certainly don't have the thing memorized.
when i described my church as "all the disciples making disciples," i don't want you to misunderstand. i see how it would be easy to think this could be a cop-out, because it most definitely is in many many many churches. especially if you've been a pastor for years and years, you've probably been told more than a fair share of times, "Why should I do this, you get paid to do it?"
But what i'm describing is not a copout. it's just a strong belief in community, faith that God works through the entire body of Christ, and the level of ownership is very high in our church. many people collectively take ownership over the task of discipling. when i say that it's a group "effort," i really did mean "effort." it's a lot of work to be a part of a body that has decided to care about one another, to love people we barely know for no reason except they are a child of God, and to come together to bring new people into the family of God. sure, there are some cases in our body where one person's witness brought another to Christ, but there are many more cases where someone saw the love and care of the whole body of Christ.
so, maybe the tendency, in that case, is addition rather than multiplication, but i'm not too concerned. I don't think God looks at souls like dollars. sure, if I go out and put one dollar into a savings account each week, i might make some money, but probably not much. i can much more quickly multiply my money by investing thousands of dollars at a time.
but, souls are not dollars. I don't think the focus should be on whether or not we're adding or multiplying according to an evangelism philosophy. God is concerned, namely, that I, and you, and all of us believers, love our neighbors as ourselves.
Adam, I see I stirred you up a bit! And what I stirred up is passion and love for God and His family and a desire to be what God made you to be and do.
No one here is trying to guilt trip you or anyone else. I just know that when we speak of the Great Commission many believers do not think it is for them. You are the norm here. It never guilt it is conviction enough to act on the atruth before us all.
I will not answer your question as to whether it is for everyone because most do not like my answer. If we are not going to take all of Scripture than we will pick and choose like many do today.
Adam, I know you and I know you care about lost people. I know you love Jesus! But I feel God has more for you than you give Him credit. The joy of leading someone to Jesus and discipling them is a joy you must not miss in your lifetime.
I have decided that most believers (not you) in America will never accept the message I offer. The message Jesus felt was important enough to rise from the dead and give it again. It was given almost as a remind, "Guys I have lived my life before you now I want to remind you in one sentence what I came to do and what I want to do through all of you and those who follow. The whole of Jesus life was modeling how we should be the church. Look at the parables and tell me they don't flow with reaching and disicpling people to become Christ followers.
So what I will do and I promise this, I will continue to disciple so as to release them to disciple others. Way too many believers don't believe they should do it but I can assure you unbelievers coming to Christ won't know any different and they will do it.
These are defining moments for the church and comfortable believers. The whole of America needs to be reached and many will not be reached by a comfortable church who love being who they in all of their comfort.
I'm happy for you but there is much much for God wants to do through you.
Keep coming back as we hammer out the Truth while stirring a passion in us that cannot be stopped.
It's good for you to stir me and it is equally good for you. Kep listening and God will make known. Keep looking and God will give you clarity. Keep feeling and God will show you a passion of His design.
You know I love you and you know I want for you all that God has to offer and most of all transformed lives because the Holy SPirit is flowing through you.
SEE MY NEXT POST!
I'm not sure that your respective approaches are mutually exclusive. What is the "Great Commission" and is there an exact way that we fulfull it?
I find little to disagree with in either of your posts. God's will is that His Kingdom come, and aren't both approaches making strides to do just that?
The approach of disciples making disciples will work great for some, especially those who are social and easily show God's love outwardly. Those who are looking for God will welcome these people with open arms, as they will deliver the Spirit-led gospel. Some people don't have the gifts for this method, and some people may be seeking but don't respond to a more in-your-face approach. They may simply need more time to learn about God.
I think this is part of a community-based approach that Adam's describing. Maybe many in the church hang out together, somebody brings an "outside" friend in, and the friend first simply likes being around those people. They may start coming to church and gradually learn about God's love by seeing it demonstrated in the community. Of course the community is not much of a community if it starts to neglect those outside of it.
I guess what I'm saying is...the process of "making disciples" isn't some set in stone formula. We are all many different people, working as one body, to reach one world, also with many different people. Whether we're out confronting people or helping equip those reaching out or whatever, we're still part of that great commission.
Dusty, my point exactly, thanks for posting. What you describe is what you and I have been taught in the established church in America.
You will have a very hard time showing me you are right in Scripture. There are different methods of course, but the point is that we are all mandated to make disciples who also make disciples and to place that responsibility elsewhere is to dimenish what Jesus commanded all of us to do.
It's not your fault, we were all taught to join ministry serve in that ministry and give to that ministry but when were you taught to serve in community wherever God led according to your passion and gifting? No we had to serve in the approved areas.
Read my post on it is easier than you think.
God made you to reproduce disciples and anyone who can build relationships with people can do it.
I do not buy the some are gifted and some are not. We can all reach people in our areas of giftedness, personality etc.. What we really need is the passion to obey because lost people matter to God and you.
Love you bro!
Bob, I'll bite.
Very simple, no and no.
But I'll reiterate a couple of points here that I said on my blog a while back. http://epicaugusta.typepad.com/epic/2006/08/why_we_share_ou.html
"The sharing of our faith (evangelism) is a response, not a duty."
"I've spent about 18 years reading and studying the scriptures and I have found in studying the ways that the message of Christ was spread abroad by the early believers that it was never done as a task or duty. It was always a very simple, very natural, and quite powerful response to themselves having a life-changing encounter with God."
"Nowhere in the account of the New Testament church (that I have found) can you find anyone having to be coaxed, or bribed, or threatened to go out and "witness." What you will find repeatedly is account after account of people who are unable to resist "being witnesses." You see, when you have a real, authentic, life-changing encounter with the living God you can't help but to talk about it and have a passion for those closest to you to have the same kind of encounter. The more you fall in love with God and experience His undeniable presence in your life, the more natural it becomes for you to openly share this way of life with others."
"Our job as pastors is not to convince people of the reasons WHY they should share their faith or come up with curriculum to teach them HOW to share their faith. Our job as pastors is not to dazzle the people in our church with the latest and greatest outreach program. Our job as pastors is to first take note of how bored, and lifeless, and lacking in passion for Christ the people in our chairs really are and then leading those people into life-changing, deeply intimate relationships with God. When we nurture in those around us a passion for knowing and loving God, their passion for God will become passion for sharing Him with those they love and care about."
There's more to read on the blog post.
Bill/Bob:
This discussion somehow reminds me of a conversation I just had Wednesday with my pastor. We're talking about worship: what it is and what it is not. Our board will be chewing on this beginning this coming Monday.
I mentioned to him that, while I love worshipping God with my church family, I think our understanding of what worship is, is too shallow.
After agreeing, he said that he thinks too often the church worships the worship, instead of God.
That comment has been tinkling around in my brain since then ... we have let worship become a noun, rather than a verb.
Perhaps this attitude "Oh, pastor, the worship was wonderful this morning," is contributing to bored and lifeless believers?
To answer Bob's questions directly, I'd say "yes" I do think the GC is mandated for all believers and "no" I don't think we act like we believe it.
But I want to ask a question, too: Does it matter how we interpret "following and obeying" the Great Commission?
For instance: I am a writer and I have written a novel that I believe fulfills the GC call on my life (not that this is my entire responsibility and I'm now off the hook, however...). I will continue to fulfill the GC call trhough the gifts God has given me.
But I am not a church planter. I am not a direct witnesser. I am a witness to God's redeeming work in my life, but I am not one who will engage in overt evangelism.
Is there a place for me in this disciples making disciples movement?
Mike said, {But I want to ask a question, too: Does it matter how we interpret "following and obeying" the Great Commission?}
BOB replies: I guess you will have to figure out what the Great Commission is really saying. To me it is very clear. You love God and serve Him with a passion that calls you into the world while engaging lost people in relationships. You don't need the gift of evangelism or a certain gift mix to do this. You can engage people and show them Jesus and when you do that you are discipling them to Jesus.
Mike said: {But I am not a church planter. I am not a direct witnesser. I am a witness to God's redeeming work in my life, but I am not one who will engage in overt evangelism}.
BOB replies: This is where we miss it. We don't need any of the above. Living the Great Commission is following the leading of the Spirit and following those impressions and walking through that door to engage people in conversation and in relationships. There is no witnessing pressure or overt evangelism -just a lifestyle change of seeing people in need and letting and asking God to use you.
In short: There is a place and you are in that place and you must use your gifts and passions but you still must obey the Great Commission and loving Jesus and His mission is what compels us.
Mike. I know you love Jesus -do you love the Mission He engaged in and do you continue to love the reason and the people He came and died for? We just need to carry on the mission he passed on to us. (Now you are back to the interpretation issue - and I would love to see what you come up with.)
See Greg Getz most recent blog post and the sermon I wrote.
Bobert: If I didn't love Him and His mission, and if I didn't have a heart for His people (saved and unsaved), I wouldn't be doing what I'm trying to do. This is far too hard of work for me to be doing just because I like to string words together and have a propensity for that. Far too discouraging of work to be engaged in if I didn't believe I was called to it. And far too "unrewarding" monetarily, if I didn't have hopes of making Him known to those who don't know Him.
Michael, I just knew this would fire you up. (And keep you thinking and talking). I hope and pray you know me well enough to know that I know all these things about you. In fact I could write a book -not very well, about all the sights I have witnessed of your light shining. I just want you to think about how you are being real in the world. The world of lost people need people who care enough about the mission and who love Jesus so much that Jesus oozes out of them.
The lost people in our world need Christ followers who will:
Engage them as authentic and transparent people. Engage them as someone they can touch and interact with emotionally. Engage them as someone to speak to and with about whatever. Engage them as someone who responds to them the way Jesus would. Engage them in with unconditional love and acceptance.
When the Love of Jesus and our love for His Mission to make disciples out of lost people begins to be seen in our every day interactions with the lost and dying and hell bound people -the Great Commission is being fulfilled is not just sitting there as some belief we hold in our hearts.
You life call is wonderful and you are making the world a better place -you made my life a better life because you are in it.
Overarching our call is a higher calling to be Jesus in the world by letting people who do not know Jesus into our lives
Other than that and if not that - people are just part of a club of warm fuzzies that feel good and feed the saints abroad in all of our comfort.
Love you Mike - lots
I love you Michael and you and I are both alittle fiesty and I love it.
I am glad that you write to reach this world for Christ and fulfill His Mission.
"It is tragic that the Great Commission has been more debated than it has been obeyed in church history." George W. Peters (A Biblical Theology of Missions, p. 173)
Post a Comment
<< Home