We need
We need to become once again, the Church full of reckless acts of obedience.
posted by Bob Carder @ 10:18 AM
31 comments
We need to become once again, the Church full of reckless acts of obedience.
posted by Bob Carder @ 10:18 AM
31 comments
31 Comments:
reckless obedience? never heard that one before. perhaps "tempered obedience" or "discerning obedience" would be better. surely obedience cannot be reckless.
"Kill your Son Abraham."
"Well, Lord, that doesn't sound very discerning for me to do, nor does it sound tempered, so...."
Eric Wilson
Other examples:
Lay on your side then lay on your other side.
Eat food prepared over dung.
Run around naked.
Marry a prostitute.
Talk to the rock.
Eat the scroll.
Bathe 7 times.
Where those people being discerning or tempered.
I believe reckless is appropriate here. Let's get reckless for Jesus!
Jesus was reckless. The modern American Church is is in man's control. Who would have thunked it?
reckless truly means "Okay, God. I'll do whatever you want me to do, no matter how silly/stupid/confusing/dangerous/
enter-other-negative-adjective-here it sounds or seems and do it JUST BECAUSE YOU TOLD ME TO." Reckless obedience adds up to obedience even when we dont know the result or even what were looking for. it equals being content and rejoicing with obedience even if it LOOKS like it failed, for we did what we were told. it's not easy for humans, but its what is asked of us
reckless oh reckless...
I've been thinking about this a few days -- I know different from my usual load up and shoot mode -- and I'm having a hard time thinking of obedience as reckless. The thing you do IN OBEDIENCE may indeed be reckless, but not the obedience itself.
I believe God may call us to reckless tasks -- but to obey that call? I don't consider that reckless.
if obedience is doing what we are told to do, WHEN WE ARE TOLD TO DO IT, and God tells us to do reckless things, isnt obedience by its very nature reckless?
We need reckless faith, not reckless obedience.
It is hard unless you look up the definition of the word:
www.dictionary.com
utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action; without caution; careless (usually fol. by of): to be reckless of danger.
Do you cautiously obey God, or do you obey without consequences of your actions?
Without CARE of consequences of your actions I mean.
hmmm...it still doesn't quite fit for me. But I can see where you are.
I think of reckless as something you know you shouldn't do but you do it anyway. He's a reckless driver. He recklessly trampled her feelings.
But, carry on.
rick,
if what we are called to is obedience through faith, and true obediance is ONLY through faith, and faith is reckless, as you suggest, should not the obedience be reckless as well?
wasnt stephen reckless regarding his own life when he allowed himself to be stoned? Isnt Jesus' call to endure persecution and attack in obediance to HIm recklessness with our lives? isnt putting the totality of ourselves on the altar, giving up EVERYTHING FOR HIM, and doing what were told without knowing the result reckless by definition?
faith is not reckless. one has faith because his reason tells him that it is worth putting his faith in. I sit in a chair because my reason tells me that it will likely hold me. Now, granted, I sit down in faith, but i would not be sitting down if i did not think it was going to hold me. likewise i follow God in obedience because my reason tells me that he is not going to let me down. because God is great, it is reasonable to put my faith in him.
the beginning of faith is reason. there is no such thing as "blind leaps of faith". therefore true faith cannot be considered reckless.
I agree Faith is not reckless but obedience must be. It's not about us it about being obedient whatever the cost and that is reckless. My life is worth nothing but to be a slave to Christ.
We obey in America, in a tame organized way. It's time to become reckless not knowing what the outcome or price Jesus may call us to.
I know few wrecklessly obedient believers. I know many who are playing it safe.
I never said, "reckless obedience".
I said, "reckless acts of obedience".
There is a difference between the two.
You go to minister to a native tribe of cannibals - that is a reckless act of obedience.
You get out of your comfort zone and start sharing Jesus even though you may be rejected - that's reckless act of obedience.
You start ministering to prostitutes at 2:00 a.m. in a dark alley - that's a reckless act of obedience.
You give up your life totally and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit - I mean say yes before He asks anything of you, that's a reckless act of obedience.
I live for reckless acts of obedience. God asked us to leave the Missionary Church so that we could head in a certain direction. We obeyed even though we knew we would lose donations and financial partners. That's a reckless act of obedience.
The result since that last reckless act of obedience - we now see all the pieces of the puzzle carefully orchestrated by God coming together. No he hasn't paid me yet, but that will happen too.
you're right Bobert, you never said "reckless obedience." How did we lose that essential "acts of" part?
I agree with you about "reckless acts of obedience." Totally agree.
I disagree. Reason does not need to precede faith. We can step out in faith even when we have no idea what God will do. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Faith does not come by reason. If it was so God would have said so.
even stepping out in faith with no idea of what God will do involves reason, eric. I would not do anything for God if I did not believe that he is a great God who knows what he is doing. We can faith in God because he has proven himself faithful. Blind faith is leaping into the dark not sure of whether someone is there to catch you. Faith in God is leaping into the dark with the sound assurance that a good God will catch you and sustain you. Your reason has to be involved in this kind of real faith.
To you other guys:
What is the difference between being recklessly obedient and doing reckless "act" of obedience?? To me, if I am acting reckless and being obedient, that implies that my obedience is reckless as well. I just don't see your differentiation here. A reckless act of obedience is the same as being recklessly obedient.
And again, if you have any faith at all in being obedient to God, your faith must be grounded in your reason. If your reason tells you that God is a great God who has proven himself faithful through all generations, your leap of faith into obedience is not reckless at all, but rather a very sound and sensible step.
Levi
It's not the same. Obedience to God is not reckless in my eyes. What He calls me to may well be reckless (hence the differentiation about "acts" of obedience). But being obedient, in my view, is not reckless.
can you show me examples? how exactly are they different?
i have to question your idea that faith involves reason.
didnt Jesus condemn the pharisees for reasoning when they saw miracles instead of having faith? Trusting that He is a good and all powerful God is not reason. reason is limited to the five senses and the mental/ emotional functions of the individual. faith comes from the Spirit. it is spiritual in origin. Reason is natural. the two use entirely different systems.
Levi
Is it reckless for a kid to clean his room the way his father and mother tell him to? No, that's not reckless, that's obedient. The kid does it because of the love he has in his heart for his parents and because he wants to please his parents.
If those same parents told the kid they wanted him to jump off the side of the grand canyon, that would be a reckless act of obedience.
God is not those parents in my example.
If I read my Bible, pray, attend worship, give, etc., I am being obedient to what God calls me to, but my obedience isn't reckless. I'm obeying to show my love for my Father and to please Him.
However, if my Father asks me to go sacrifice my son on an altar, and I make preparations to do that, that's reckless obedience. Because I trust that the God who called me to a task will help me accomplish that task.
Whether it's a reckless act of obedience or not, by the way, is, I believe, a man-made determination. For me, making a disciple could be a RAO if it is not in my personality to relate to people that way. But I can be recklessly obedient to God's call, knowing He is there to accomplish His work through me.
Ok, Thanks Michael. But what I see in your examples is that the kid who obeys his parent by jumping off the grand canyon is doing a reckless act of obedience. By doing this reckless act of obedience, he is obeying his parents recklessly. I see the difference between just regular obedience (praying, bible study, etc) and reckless obedience (Abe and Isaac). I just wasn't sure why the distinction was being made between "reckless ACTS of obedience" and "reckless obedience." Because for me, obedience is an action in itself, and therefore any act of obedience could just as well be called obedience. And if you have reckless obedience, it is the same as having a reckless act of obedience.
I think you would probably agree with that statement?...i think we just lost something in the poor communication or phrasing of my questions.
and to follow up on your last paragraph, michael...
...from the secular perspective our "reckless acts of obedience" would be considered irrational.
...but from the Christian perspective, "RAO's" make quite a bit of sense because of the faith we have in God.
would that be a fair interpretation of what you said there?
sorry, just had an afterthought while reading my last post...
So from the Christian perspective, these reckless acts of obedience are not really reckless at all. They make sense to us in the light of who God is. So in actuality, the only ones who should call our obedience reckless would be those on the outside looking in; those in the secular world who don't quite understand how God works.
???thoughts???
But here's a question, If God told you to do something, knowing that it would kill you would you do it. Here's another question: If God commanded you to do something, and you knew it would kill your son, daughter, wife, cousins, or twenty people you were close to or fifty people you didnt know, would you still do it? and im not talking about the "i think this might kill me/them" idea. i mean He has said that it will, but He still wants you to. would you?
Reckless obedience cares not for the immedeiate consequences, for self or others, but obeys simply because God commanded.
If God really did tell me to do those things, and it did not conflict with what I know about God from Scripture, of course I would obey...it would be very hard, but I would hope to obey if ever in that situation.
But Zach, here is what I am saying (maybe you didn't read me above?): I am saying that those acts are only reckless from the perspective of the non-believer. If you are a Christian, you realize that the things God calls you to do really make sense because God is God. For the Christian, no act of obedience will appear reckless, because the Christian knows that God is great, God knows what he is doing, and God will take care of his children. For those reasons, it is not reckless to obey God, though it may appear as such from the outside.
Becoming a martyr seems like the stupidest thing anyone could do (from the perspective of a nonbeliever). But the people of the Way know that it is the highest calling of obedience. Christians know that it is not an irrational act, but a truly rational act of obedience. God will not call you to a place where he will not be with you. It makes all the sense in the world to obey God in any way he calls you to do so. It is only logical that one follow God; they are fools who choose not to.
To understand fully what I mean by reckless acts of obedience you cannot look at spiritual things through secular eyes. The secular could never understand Abraham being willing to sacrifice His son on the altar - a reckless act of obedience. But to look at this through Spiritual eyes while it doesn't make sense nor can we reason it out, we obey because God is calling us to obey. If we will do this God will display His glory.
When God calls us to leave our house because he wants us to check on a neighbor we do not know it will likely not make sense. But you obey and discover that he is having a heart attack. You then get him help because you obeyed God - that's what I mean by reckless acts of obedience.
It may not make sense. It will likely stretch you out of your comfort zone - but in your reckless act of obedience the power of God is released and His glory is made know to all.
Imagine the neighbor who was having a heart attack and you came to his house because God told you to do so. Imagine what he now thinks about God through your reckless act of obedience.
Has anyone ever experienced God asking you to do something that you cannot reason with and you obey and then see His glory displayed?
But Bob, here's again what I have been saying. The act of obedience is never really reckless if you know who God really is. Abraham's call to leave Ur made all the sense in the world to him because he served a big God. He knew that God would be with him. He knew that everything works for the good of those who love God. It was in Abraham's best interest to follow God. It made sense to him. It was a rational act of obedience. not reckless. Reckless means irrational, something that does not make sense. Reckless is the view you get when your God is too small and when you are looking at it through your worrying human eyes. Yet when you have a Great Big God, then those reckless things make sense.
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