Why?
Why do you or don't you go to church on Sunday?
All answers are accepted and safe on this sight!
posted by Bob Carder @ 3:16 PM
17 comments
Monday, May 14, 2007
All answers are accepted and safe on this sight!
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17 Comments:
Why do I go to church? A couple reasons, at least (not in order, except for the first):
1. To worship God.
2. To be with my brothers and sisters.
3. Because I like to.
4. To gain instruction and learn more about how to live this Christian life.
The concept of "going to Church" as far as I can tell does not exist in the Bible. The main concept is to "be the Church"!
Brian C
True, but not an answer to the question Anonymous Brian C. Although there are indications in the Bible that believers met "in church", and received instruction "in church." Not the same format as our current model, but meeting together, as a body.
I go because I'm paid to. Soon I won't be paid and I probably won't go. I'll continue to gather with Christ followers for worship, learning, and body-life; but I doubt it will be Sunday morning and probably not a "worship service" at a "church"... (unless it's some missionary endeavor to a church???)
John, I am sorry you have apparently had a bad experience with "the church." It makes my heart ache. I wish there was something I could do for you.
An observation: A lot of people on this blog have been hurt by "the church" -- while I have no such experience. Perhaps this explains why I sometimes feel odd man out here.
Have people in the church hurt me or disappointed me? Certainly, but never so God. I see the things people do and recognize they are as fallible as me, but God always sustains. He is always faithful.
Some people here I know have been damaged by the church, others I only suspect it.
I don't know where I'm going with this, but I find it interesting. Is there causality? Does damage equal looking for a new way to do church because you know it shouldn't be the way it is?
Just pondering...
Anonymous - you jump to many conclusions here. You conclude pain causes John not to return to church when there could be other reasons. Maybe he is discovering a better way to share Christ than through the modern church.
You think many on this blog have been hurt by the modern church and this is why they oppose its practices.
I would like to make clear that my leaving the "church" is a positive work of God. He has led me into a greater work. My heart aches for those like you who want to rationalize that the only reason one would leave the modern church or oppose it is an adverse reaction to pain.
I challenge many of the practices of the modern church as unbiblical additions of man. I challenge anyone to find in the Bible the Sr. Pastor model of church leadership, the structur of the worship service used today, the mandate to worship on Sunday, the sharing of worship and communion with unbelievers, the practice of drawing the public into a worship service or a myriad of other practices that are common today.
I challenge everyone to re-examine what you do at and through your church in God’s name.
You asked “Does damage equal looking for a new way to do church because you know it shouldn't be the way it is?”
My answer is no. Damage is not what is driving me. Truth is driving me to look for a new way to do church. What I am finding is not new at all but rather old. What will it take for you to challenge the unbiblical practices of the modern church?
John, I happy for you! In a very short time you will be set free from the bondage of institutional humbugaroni (A word to describe -nonsense).
I'm praying for you as this burden is released and the yoke is made easy. Jesus wants His children to be able to freely follow Him without all the chains.
Keep us in the loop on how the transition goes.
I fully agree with Terry. You share great truth and yet the Christian community in large part cannot even see or hear of it.
Anonymous, I have been hurt by the church even destroyed at times.But Jesus has healed me and I love Jesus and I am His child. You've been hurt, I've been hurt, all God's children been hurt.
And now I am in a Church family that isn't bound up by the craziness of buildings, budgets, butts in pews, and power hungry and controlling leaders.
I left the church in order to create a movement (anointed of God) that becomes the Church -the Body of Christ involved in the Mission of Jesus to make disciples who make disciples. I risked everything I had to trust God for something that I could never do without Him. Anon...You can keep going to church but you are never off the hook from being the CHURCH and making disciple who make disciples yourself personally.
You have us all wrong.
I wish you could see past your own baggage.
I believe I've been misunderstood. I apologize. I was only asking the question. Had not come to any conclusions.
Anon, we are all sorry if we have misunderstood you. However, you did make the statement about this site being birthed out of pain and is a knee jerk reaction to that, which is not true.
I think you are right in that sometimes God does take those who bear the scars of the cross to leads new movements in His honor. Pain has been a tool of God throughout history. Sometimes it does take pain to wake and shake us up so that we can see what God wants us to see and live the way He wants us to live.
See the difference between being the CHURCH seven days a week over going to church one day a week. The church in America has reduced Jesus down to our own comforts, plans, wishes, and love for status quo.
Our young and emerging leaders are leaving the church to be the Church because the church has Jesus in a box too small for the God they serve.
Mike E. said,
1. To worship God.
2. To be with my brothers and sisters.
3. Because I like to.
4. To gain instruction and learn more about how to live this Christian life.
The Planter has something to ask: Now what happens in the world as you enter her upon leaving the church? What happens in your life as you live as the Church after enjoying the church? How does your four thoughts or reasons for going to church help you to live like Jesus so much so that you do what He did and live as He lived when He out His life in Great Commission purpose and glory? Then before ascending back into heaven Jesus gave the Greatest Commission for all of to personally obey.
Mike, please help us take this deeper for greater understanding.
1. To worship God.
#1 back in the world: Let me preface this by saying I don't think MY worship has to have an effect back in the world. It is enough to worship God even if no one else ever knows. But, I think it does, or can, have an effect. Here's how: Worship helps me see/know when I'm veering off "the path" so to speak. When I worship God, His Spirits corrects my attitudes and my assumptions and my behaviors (among others). Therefore, worship makes me a better Christian and makes my "living it out" witness stronger.
2. To be with my brothers and sisters.
#2 back in the world: This one MAY just be selfish. I love my friends and I like to see them. And that's OK. But it could also bleed over into how I treat others I cross paths with.
3. Because I like to.
#3 in the world: I enjoy church. Not going to be ashamed about that. If someone sees my ebullient face after worship and wonders what makes me so happy, I can tell them.
4. To gain instruction and learn more.
#4 in this world: I love learning. I really do. It's one of the reasons I hang out here. :) The more I learn about how to be a better Christian, the more I'll actually BE a better Christian in the world. Seems like a good plan to me.
Can I comment on the Anonymous posting too? Anonymous never said the site had been birthed out of pain. She observed that it APPEARED many people connected witht this blog had been "hurt by the church." Big difference.
And the poster never said there was, as they put it, "causality." They merely wondered IF there was. In that post I heard a heart that is also broken, but is broken by the pain the organized church has caused others. I heard compassion and empathy, not accusation.
That's the danger of these kinds of electronic exchanges. And Terry, it seems you also jumped to many conclusions about that poster, while immediately becoming defensive. No one ever said your movement is not a positive work of God, only wondered if pain was part of what birthed it. Pain can be very positive. If the pain I feel when I touch a hot stove causes me to move my hand away from it, that's positive.
Anon: Are you still around? Care to clear it up for us?
Sorry Mike - I can't accept your conclusions about me.
I wasn't concluding anything about the poster. They are unknown to me. I do not believe what I posted made conclusions about them. As they said I may have misunderstood but I only have what they wrote to go on.
I was not defending what I am doing as no one was making an offense against me. I was simply pointing out an alternate motivation for an implied conclusion.
Anon. implied a bad experience caused John's decision when he never said that.
I read 'A lot of people on this blog have been hurt by "the church"" This statement has meaning. I never applied it to myself. Interpretting meaning from a statement is not jumping to conclusion. Concluding something from a statement that is not there is jumping to conclusions.
I have reread my post and do not find it to be defensive or offensive. I think sometimes when I challenge the status quo or ruffle peoples feathers they take it as in some way hostile. I think you can relate here Mike.
Lets also be clear that pain is always a bad thing even if good results from it. If it were a good thing then God would not do away with it.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
I agree to disagree on pain. In this life it can be a good thing. The verse you cite is not a reference to now but to the glorious time to come.
And to be clear, you don't think this statement is jumping to a conclusion about Anonymous?:
From Terry's post: "My heart aches for those like you who want to rationalize that the only reason one would leave the modern church or oppose it is an adverse reaction to pain."
Anonymous never said anything about it being the "only reason," but rather seemed to be wondering if pain could be "a" reason.
I think anon is alright. Anon -we long to hear back from you.
Mike, where does the Mission of fulfilling the Great Commission fit into your life/church/worship?
We are all educated way beyond our level of obedience.
Do you Go to Gather!
Or do you Gather to Go?
If you Gather to Go then when you Gather you are equipped to Go!
Is this so in your church or what is so?
Bob, to answer your question, the Great Commission has always been primary in my theology. But, I can tell you this, my definition of what that means to my life, and how my obedience to the GC is manifested, is changing. I'm unwilling to try to pin it down at this point, but I think you would smile.
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