while I'm on a roll...
First let me say that I served the flock in some of the finest places filled with people who were second to none in their honest pursuit of God as best they understood what that means.
As I look back I now realize where I failed them. Of course I am human and at the time I gave my life to leading the Body of Christ as I best knew how. For the rest of my life I will lead/serve differently.
But I failed big time when I allowed the people to separate believing in the Great Commission from obeying it. I failed because I let people off the hook by allowing/making the work of Great Commission obedience a church corporate thing rather than a believers personal responsibility.
I believed that sermons, classes and programs was all that was needed to make disciples. One of my staff members charged with discipleship ministries often said, "everything we do in the church involves making disciples". Nothing can be further from the truth. The Great Commission is NOT a corporate mandate, it is a personal mandate for all believers. If it is not personal it will not get done.
I now believe that planting more and more churches will never fulfill the Great Commission in America. I believe this because everyday in America 10 churches close their doors and 8 news ones open their doors. Planting more churches doesn't mean we are raising up an army of disciples who disciple others to disciple others. We must teach the Body of Christ to believe the personal Great Commission mandate, and then we must insist on (their/ our) repentance for not obeying what (they/we) have said we believed and then we must equip the body on how to do it by also holding them personally accountable to do it. If we can pull this one off, the Great Commission will be fulfilled in America. If we don't many more American churches large and small will close their doors.
By the way, how can a church close their doors when the church is a people. The last time I looked people do not have doors. Well, come to think of it, men do have barn doors that need to be zipped shut to keep out the cold.
Let's dialog together for further clarity.
posted by Bob Carder @ 10:48 AM
5 comments
5 Comments:
this is pretty close to what i believe you've been trying to communicate here for a long time, bob.
here's an idea i have for you--
why don't you write a post about what you think a biblical, or disciple-driven, or GC-following, or whatever description you want to give it--church service would look like.
or if not a service--would it be a gathering? would there be music? would the disciples share with each other? what would corporate worship entail? because even in the church of Acts, the individual disciples gathered for corporate worship.
i've long thought that church services should be more focused on individuals sharing their lives with one another, with disciples speaking words of blessing and prophecy to the body. i've often felt that churches shouldn't have stages or necessarily even pulpits--that pews should be replaced by chairs that face one another (one popular church calls this "church in the round," but they aren't the first ones who did it this way, i bet.).
do you remember luke medley? One sunday night service, when the congregation was asked for words of testimony, I remember him saying that he had to stand up and speak, because if he was ever given the chance to speak publicly about the blessing of Christ in his life, he felt he better take it. God bless his soul.
at that moment, I and the hundred or so others in attendance witnessed a perfect picture of church, I believe.
What do you think a worship gathering/service should look like? this might bring further clarity to your views on disciple-driven churches.
I would like you to answer these question too. Amdawson points out some things that I was confused about in your blogs about the modern day church. I agree with your concept, just alittle confused about the application.
Hello Bob!
Check out my latest post "WHYi" at www.thepointe.blog.com and tell me what you think.
Adam, great questions. Since we don't go to church we gather as the Church.
There is an incredible sense of Holy Spirit movement as the Body is able to share how He is working in their lives and in the new disciples they work with.
We gather informally not as the main thing but the result of doing the main thing, we always have the shared Word of God (I didn't say sermon), we are always reminded again and again as to why we exist (to make disciples who make disciples (leading to God birthed faith communities who do the same). We sing some songs that build faith and honor God - but not with all the jazz - just a guitar or keyboard but lots of intimate praise, we pray together, we share whatever God leads people to share, we give our tithes and offerings to God and use those resources where God leads us to use them, we share communion in various but deeply meaningful ways, and we end with a potluck and community life.
Gathering is not the supreme priority, fulfilling the mission of the Great Commission is.
Our worship gathering is never intended to attract people to it. The worship is for believers. Unbelievers cannot worship God, they do not know Him personally. We have many other opportunities to minister to the unreached in real life settings. Believe me this is proving to be more effective than starting with what may lead to consumerism. We live so that through us people are attracted to Jesus as we live, play and work in the world.
Adam, your second paragraph is what many long for. They also long for something to give their lives for. People long for a cause worth dying for - just like the early church. This a far cry from sittin in a pew!
To the rest of you: Tear me up!
John, the application is simple for those who can look at it without becoming defensive and with fresh set of spiritual eyes. We simply do it the way Jesus taught us in His life and teaching. Everything Jesus did had a redemptive conclusion. Everything in His life led to and flowed out of the Great Commission.
It's very difficult NOT to be CONFUSED when you read this through the filter of the American Church. While some try to say they are doing this in their church, nothing is further from the truth.
As you allow God to speak to you the Holy Spirit will reveal it more clearly, if you really want it.
The Disciple Driven Church is different and it cannot happen in this manner in established churches. Just like you, people cannot get their arms and minds around something that requires so much more and so different then how they have been taught. Disciple Driven Church is a movement that makes disciples who make disciples who make disciples as a personal act of required obedience.
John, sadly I have lost a couple of my dearest friends who label me heretical and who have thrown me away and discouraged others to participate without even taking the time to speak to me for clarification. Some have even pulled my support because I am not doing it the way they insist is a must way. Others have written me off because what I am called to is so different than what they are involved in.
Don't worry, I am not crushed. This is nothing new in the church. We throw people away daily. None of this knocks me off course. Nothing is going to make me disobedient to God because God will make a way and those who are involved become partners in the huge harvest that is being readied by God.
Thanks John believing in us even when you didn't understand us fully. Michelle and I love you!
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