Whoopie Goldberg
Whoopy Goldberg in "Sister Act" had this this to say about the Church....."It's like Reno, It's about getting more butts in the seat."
Does this remind you of anything? What?
posted by Bob Carder @ 5:14 AM
14 comments
14 Comments:
Well, but please remember when her character said that, unless I'm forgetting, she was still the worldy lounge singer.
Of course, there are churches that operate that way. But I cannot believe they are the majority.
The majority of churches, I think, aren't doing near enough to get more, and new, butts in the pew.
The point is that we don't want more butts in the pew we want more butts in the world changing her. And if we have more butts in the world changing her of course there will be more butts in the pew and not the other way around. The church was never called to the pew -she was called to the world.
I love your boldness and courage to write and share your heart.
Whoopie in Sister Act was playing a role but her statements do haunt us, don't they?
Is Whoopie describing Christianity or Churchianity? And you do know the difference. Churchianity gears everything toward getting more butts in the pew. Christianity focusses on getting more people in the kingdom through life transformation. We really are a little Christ to the world and that means our first priority is a "Going" out not going in. I agree both are important -but the going out is most important of all.
If you don't believe me, why is Christianity in a downword spiral in America.
Answer: We have more Churchianity than Christianity in America. Is that a true statement?
I once encountered a youth pastor who told his youth group on their "kick-off" Sunday for the school year that, "If you fill these chairs, you're accomplishing ministry."
It astounds me (literally) to think that people actually believe the Church working like that-- that it is really, truly fulfilling the commandments of God. The ministry and command of Christ in no way reflects the sentiment that a bigger congregation is a holier one, or that ministry is accomplished by the hearing of a sermon or attending a seeker-friendly event. In other words, I quite agree with you (again), Bob. =)
And, one last thing before I end this long-winded, mild diatribe... I loved Sister Act (one AND two), and if I were to become a nun, I'd wanna be one just like Whoopie. =)
-Jessica
The Planter said:
The point is that we don't want more butts in the pew we want more butts in the world changing her. And if we have more butts in the world changing her of course there will be more butts in the pew and not the other way around.
I say:
Yep, exactly. That's what I meant when I said the church (and me, personally) is not doing enough to get more butts in the pew.
Jessica wrote:
The ministry and command of Christ in no way reflects the sentiment that a bigger congregation is a holier one, or that ministry is accomplished by the hearing of a sermon or attending a seeker-friendly event. In other words, I quite agree with you (again), Bob. =)
I write:
Neither does it reflect that a bigger congregation is less holy or that ministry is NOT acommplished through sermons and.or seeker-friendly events.
We (on this blog) continue looking at things as black and white. It's the heart. It's my heart. It's your heart. It's the corporate heart of the local congregation. For me, it's not the "things" we do -- even making disciples.
Mike, If loving Jesus is reflected in our worship -then our worship and love for Jesus should lead us to bear fruit in and outside of ourselves. People are not really growing closer to God if they are not bearing fruit from the harvest fields in their lives. I know you agree with this.
Now let me expand on my thoughts. Many people in the Church think bearing fruit in their personal lives ie "spiritual growth" is what Jesus is asking for. Now for some good news/bad news...The good news is that we need spiritual growth fruit personally and the bad news is we need to bear fruit from the harvest by going out. Believers have a love affair with going in but when it comes to going out there is little passion and little evidence of it being done. Oh the weekly meeting may attract some and reach them but what about each of us? Why have addition when we can have multiplication?
Mike said, For me it's not the things we do -even making disciples.
Spiritual fruit is personal growth but more than that it is reaching the harvest. Are you bearing fruit that is reflected in the harvest?
Mike, I wish you could see that in America's not so distant future is a repeat of Europe. (Maybe you do) We are clearly losing ground. I'm sure the reason for dis-interest and decline and dissengagement from the Sunday Church is because we the Christ Body are not taking responsibility for living our spiritual fruit nor is our spiritual fruit influencing the world personally. Instead of taking Jesus to those we come in contact with -we invite them to Church. Instead of going out we are preocuppied with going in.
I need your help: What do I need to do to help people see this? I'm at a loss, maybe you can help me further. Expand on this for our reading audience.
Also I should say, we dont JUST want more butts in the pew..we want..
Just two questions (not to be antagonistic, but I really am searching)
1. Why is there such an anti-church movement from those who call themselves Christians?
2. Why do Christians behave like the world, look like the world, dress like the world, drink like the world, etc.. to reach the world?
I thought Christians were to change, become a new creation, and be a change-agent?
Has pop-culture and the post-modern world changed the Christians that much?
Does the new term "organic church" still believe in Jesus Christ or is it something spawned from the New Age or Seeker movements?
Anonymous - Your second question answers the first. There is, as you see it, an anti-church movement among Christians because men have added things to the church that many of us do not think should be there. I am not anti-church but I do think the church in many cases reflects the world more than Christ. The Organic church movement seeks to strip away these added things and return to a purer form of church that we see in the Bible. Jesus is in the lead in the organic church. He has the place of prominence He deserves. We work and worship where He leads us.
Guys, A movement back to the Great Commission of Disciples making disciples is not New Age or joining with the crowd. It is a movement that is Holy Spirit led. Don't rule out the possibility of the Holy SPirit creating a movement unlike what we have seen in tradition.
Let me ask: Is what we are doing effective? Are we really making true disciples who are multiplying others? I believe that what we have is a higher standard than what you see. It's more than a come and see Sunday event that draws and entertains. Can you give the Holy Spirit a chance to show you how deep it is?
Will America follow Europe or will we hold the standard of Scripture & follow Jesus in a wineskin ministry that takes us back the New Testament standard.
Anonymous, what you are faced with is exactly what you long for: the truth, no reduction in standard, an authentic expression of being a little Jesus in the world, being real and authentic, not playing church but being Church. Will you let God stretch you from American to New Testament?
If you will give God a chance, He will show you how to redeem America.
Open up brother, better more effective times are just on the horizon. You are ripe to be used of God in this transformational movement of the Holy Spirit.
You give us time and we'll show you a holy Spirit m
Mike, it is not the first priority to get more butts in the pew. The priority is getting more peole reached for Jesus. The result: More butts in the pew and or in the Church family.
Mike, it's time to lead someone to Jesus through building a continued relationship that leads discussion to seeing Jesus and accepting Him. We don't need more people to attend church locations even though it is helpful. We need people to join with Jesus!
Go get um! Time is running out.
I will celebrate when you lead someone to Him.
Get off the main priority of going to Church and be Her! Then go to Church 100 times a week.
I love you :)
Anonymous: No anti-church movement here! We call the Church a people and not a church building. It is not going to Church but being the Church who redeems the Great Commission. After we place the Commission with supremacy and action or results, go to church buildings for equipping and felowship and for worship all you want. I love the Church who are the people. The church was never a building. Show me in Scripture where it was and I'll join with your passion.
The Planter wrote:
Mike, it is not the first priority to get more butts in the pew. The priority is getting more people reached for Jesus. The result: More butts in the pew and or in the Church family.
I reply (no disrespect intended): Duh. We've been agreeing on this since you started the blog.
The Planter also said: Get off the main priority of going to Church and be Her! Then go to Church 100 times a week.
I reply: My priority is not "going" to church. But going to church is a priority for me.
What do I mean? I do not live my Christian life for my church, I live it for God. I believe I am doing with my life what He wants me to do, even though I am not physically out making disciples who make disciples who ... I believe I AM being the church in the way God has called me to be the church.
I am involved in a very long process that I certainly believe will move hurting people closer to God when God brings the process to fruition. I understand my mission, my talents, my abilities. I understand, and accept, my place in God's Kingdom.
Therefore, because I need Him more than anything else while I am working on the project He gave me, I make going to church and worshipping Him and fellowshipping with my family who uphold me in my mission, a top priority in my life.
As humbly as I can state this, and in all fear and trembling, I say I AM doing it right, Bob.
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