Excuse me, Rick Warren...
Excuse me, Rick Warren, the author of "The Purpose Driven Life."
While I have enjoyed the read and have benefited from the truth and wisdom, there is one huge flaw -the emphasis of the five purposes. I'm thankful people are-connecting and even re-connecting with God through this resource for living. I love that part.
The part I don't like is the subtle and sometimes direct implication that these are the five purposes all at the same level of importance. They are important but one big one drives the others
As you have read, according to Rick Warren, there are five purposes for living and five purposes for the church. As I recall, he says they are: worship, fellowship, discipleship, ministry, and evangelism all on the level of priority.
A pastor friend of mine told me this story. He said he had led someone to Jesus and recently and that new Christ follower said this: "What's all this hype about five purposes and all these churches making sure they have every one in their mission or vision statement? " He then said, "Isn't there only one purpose or mission for the Church (the body of Christ in and outside of buildings)? Isn't the Great Commission our Mission and Purpose for the Church (us) and doesn't worship, fellowship and ministry flow out of our Mission?" Out of the mouth of babes!
Let me add a couple more thoughts. Whats up with the separation of evangelism and discipleship. When did we ever read in God's Word that there is a separation? Aren't we supposed to disciple people to Christ and with Christ as we interact with them everyday we and they live?
I agree with the insightful new follower of Christ. There is one purpose (evangelism and discipleship as one): "Make Disciples" And there are three ways to make disciples: "Going into the world" Baptising them, and "Teaching them them to obey."
As was said, discipleship and evangelism are one priority or mandate for all of us. The other priorities like worship, fellowship and ministry are by products of living out our lives in obedience to God (teaching them to obey).
To do what Rick Warren suggests is to bring Christianity in American more quickly to her doom as we see Europe today. While Rick is doing good work and lives are changed, the long term implications of this teaching (which is not intentional, I believe) will lead us to keep doing what is surely not working in America.
It's time for a fresh new start in a fresh new wineskin filled with "making disciples who make disciples" even if we have to give our lives for it.
This is sure to get a rise out of someone. I welcome your thoughts.
posted by Bob Carder @ 11:33 AM
12 comments
12 Comments:
Not sure I can find a lot of common ground with you here my friend. I'm weary of the whole "Purpose Driven" commercialization and the faddish attempts churches make to copy Saddleback.
But I can't find fault with Rick over bringing us back away from all of the petty silliness churches tend to occupy themselves with to focus on the things that really matter the most.
The church should be worshippers. That is our first calling...to love the Lord with all of our being and worship him in spirit and truth.
The church should be a place of fellowship (or community...doing life together...however you want to say it).
The church should be reaching the lost through evangelism.
The church should be nurturing the newly found toward maturity through discipleship.
The church should be equipping those disciples to find their place of ministry.
These five points I think are quite valid and Rick has simply reminded us that this is what we're supposed to be about...rather than setting up committees to decide if we should have organs or guitars.
I think we have great freedom in creating communities where these five things play out and flow together. And yes, I believe it should be more organic and natural versus programatic.
Just my thoughts Bob. Thanks for the stimulation.
Bill, Please don't misunderstand me here. All are important! What I point out here is accepting the Supremacy of the Great Commission and when we do discipleship before people come to Christ and during and after all other priorities should follow with balance. These are Scriptural, but let's not get the cart before the horse.
Of course these things matter! In our attempts to join with God in creating a new wineskin I give freedom for our guys do it as God leads but with balance. I do insist on Making Disciples above all else.
Thanks Bill for your comments, they are very helpful. We do have more common ground than you think. But I will die on the stated value of the "Supremacy" of the Great Commission which if you can see it all the other important stuff flows out of it.
Keep talking -I'm listening!
I'm with you Bob. :-)
I feel argumentative today...been bantering about with atheists all day.
My only disagreement with you would be that I believe a life of worship must take the place of supremacy. Everything else we do, including the Great Commission and making disciples, flows out of a heart that is bowed in worship.
Until we are first worshippers (and I mean a lifestyle of worship, not just singing a few songs once a week), we can accomplish nothing else.
It is through abiding in Christ (worship) that we are fruitful in everything else.
I'll worship first if you will put making disciples in her rightful God ordained (given with authority as the resurrected Christ)place.
You make a good point. But why are people worshipping and not caring about the unreached? For many or even most they worship and stop and worship and stop and never fully obey.
Let's keep hammering this out.
Bob said:
"I'll worship first if you will put making disciples in her rightful God ordained (given with authority as the resurrected Christ)place."
Bill said:
DEAL!!! Already there with ya bro. :-)
I do differentiate between the performance of worship and a heart of worship. A heart of worship is not restricted to a time, place, or format. A heart of worship pulsates continuously with passionate love for Christ, and out of that passionate love for Christ flows passionate love for one another and passion for reaching the lost.
Those who go to church but don't care about the lost are stuck in the performance of worship and are not driven by a heart of worship.
Bill, We are speaking the same language. As I read your stuff I more and more appreciate your heart and I am blessed for the way connected us. When in your neck of the woods let's connect and when in mine let's connect.
Were you ever able to load my blog?
Bill, Still cannot load your blog. It says I need some Active something program.
You guys...golly...
But I do think Bill has hit on a key point. The difference between worshipping and having a heart of worship. I am striving for the latter. I want my life to be 24/7 an act of worship of God.
Nowhere near that right now, but each day He leads me closer -- and I see it before me. Encouraging me.
Bob,
Man...can't understand the problem you're having with my blog. When's the last time you were able to load it? I haven't made any significant changes in the past couple months that would affect that.
Is it Active X that you need?
I came across your blog today and am interested in reading more. I am truly a nobody, but would love to dialoge through comments on several of your posts.
My passion is reaching the world and impacting our culture by being the church.
I have to say that I have been a PDC student for many years and over the last three or so years, I have come to understand that although the 'purposes' are not on equal plain... there should be balance in our lives.
The trick is to understand HOW and to what levels to allocate. My experience as a child of the King is that WORSHIP is foundational. Not just the 'act' of worship, but the adoration and influence of the love of God in our lives.
When we KNOW God, our heart sings for Him... as His will is revealed to us, we SHARE and others come to Christ.
Thank you for your willingness to be bold. We should chat soon.
Your Brother!
James, I checked out your blogsite and it is really cool. Love your heart. I agree that the purposes are important but consider this: What if the Great Commission (Discipleship) became the priority of the church wilth worship, fellowship and ministry flowing out of Disciples making disciples?
The stuck American church that is dying would come alive organically.
When I pastored I taught the five purposes. Guess what? People gravitated toward their passion which usually left discipleship to me in a programmed setting.
Discipleship has been just another thing in America and Christianity is losing ground.
We have tried it our way, let's now begin to do it Jesus' way. Did Jesus give supremacy to any other thing besides the Great Commission (Discipleship) one on one?
Let's let the church become the Church through intentional (every believer) disciples making disciples.
You are right but I insist that we do all with Discipleship at the top and the others flowing out of making disciples.
Give me time and I'll prove this is possible organically and that disciples will grow exponentially and beyond. Hang with me and I'll prove it to you.
Love to speak with you, call me, I'm dying to connect with another leader of change to change America.
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