Brian McLaren hits a homerun on this quote
Brian McLaren in "The Secret Message of Jesus" p83, "Jesus form
Jesus forms a movement of people who trust Him and believe His message. They believe that they don't have to wait for this to happen, but rather that they can begin living a new and better way now, a way of life Jesus conveys by His pregnant phrase the 'kingdom of God'. Life for them now is about interactive relationship reconciled to God, reconciled to one another - and so they see their entire lives as an opportunity to make beautiful music of God's kingdom so that more and more people will be drawn into it, and so that the world will be changed by their growing influence. Everyone can have a role in this expanding kingdom - women and men, masters and servants, powerful and powerless, old and young, urban and rural, white collar and blue collar, previously religious and previously irreligious. Each life can add beauty to the secret message of Jesus. Each person can be a secret agent of the secret message of Jesus.
Brian continues this thought further. "This idea -that the kingdom of God is about our daily lives, about our way of life -may lie behind the tension people feel between the words religious and spiritual. Perhaps the word religious has come for some to mean 'believing in God but not the kingdom of God.' And perhaps the word spiritual has become a way for others to mean 'living in an interactive relationship with God and others as a daily way of life'. In this way, the influence of Jesus may be as strong outside of some religious institutions as inside - and maybe even stronger. This may explain why church attendance has been plummeting across Europe and in many parts of the United States. When Christianity sees itself more as a belief system or set of rituals for the select few and less as a way of daily life available to all, it loses the 'magic' of the kingdom." (end quote)
Give me your thoughts and let's all shoot for living a 'spiritual' and leave the 'religious' behind.
posted by Bob Carder @ 11:36 AM
6 comments
6 Comments:
Quoting Brian McLaren, the Planter wrote: When Christianity sees itself more as a belief system or set of rituals for the select few and less as a way of daily life available to all, it loses the 'magic' of the kingdom.
McLaren was just here in town (at Goshen College) and I was not aware of it until the moment was passed. I would have loved to attend.
However a friend of mine DID attend, and this is part of the report he gave me:
"The biggest insight for me was how evangelicals have focused so much on broadcasting the message of the Gospel to as many people as possible, even to the point of media empires like CCN... but (and a huge but at that) if you don't have the indwelling of that message being seen and lived out in your adherents, the more you broadcast the message and the wider your audience, the more you look like a total fraud."
Mike again: Bobert will be attracted to that thought. And I am too.
My friend again: He (McLaren) very much believes in a subversive approach to living out our faith, and I think there is something to that - subverting the powers that be in the world and subverting some of our long entrenched doctrine and positions that keep us from truly being like Christ. We're Christian, but not Christ-like."
Mike again: And I think Bobby would agree with that, too. Not that I'm going to speak for him (as if I could get a word in anyway...the man writes VOLUMES and then wonders why no one responds...sheer verbiage intimidation, sometimes..., he says smiling at his good friend)
But, you might ask, what do you take away from the McLaren quote on The Planter's blog? Well, there you go...that is the question, eh?
Not surprisingly, I am attracted to this section: "they see their entire lives as an opportunity to make beautiful music of God's kingdom so that more and more people will be drawn into it, and so that the world will be changed by their growing influence."
Yes, I want my life to be part of the beautiful music that is God's song throughout eternity, and yes, I want to draw people into that kingdom. But I do not expect to have "growing influence" in this would, nor do I expect to change this world. Perhaps have a small part to play in changing some people, but changing the world by my "growing influence"? No.
Mike - I am sorry for the way you feel about the possibility of God using you to change the world. As I have studied Christian history I have found that God uses surrendered hearts to change the world.
Our upside down Christianity in America wants to hold up man's abilities as the ability to influence. I am convinced that God can do more with a surrendered sinner than man can do with a hundred top notch leaders.
Would one man dare go to Nineveh to preach in the streets expecting the entire city to repent? Today we would organize a great crusade and fill the stadiums with pop music and "gifted" speakers". I prefer one annointed preacher with the power of God behind him. Maybe this is where the true difference lies. Which method do you prefer to use to change the world?
Mike wrote: Yes, I want my life to be part of the beautiful music that is God's song throughout eternity, and yes, I want to draw people into that kingdom. But I do not expect to have "growing influence" in this would, nor do I expect to change this world. Perhaps have a small part to play in changing some people, but changing the world by my "growing influence"? No.
the Planter responds to Mike: Perhaps you need to rethink God's IMPACT through you in the world. I would never suggest that you influence the world but rather change her. And if you are used by God to change one life a year for the rest of your life -you will change the world. And, if can keep those who are changed away from the church that expects no more than attending -we have a chance for each one of those Christ-followers to do the same.
God is not looking for another Billy Graham -He is looking for you to ask Him to use you and be available to build a relationship with someone who needs Him.
Once you pray everyday for God to connect you with someone and (you are watching for those God-opened doors)when He does -He has prepared them for your love and His message through you.I cannot prepare for those meetings because God always leads them and I follow.
As Brian says, be 'Christ-like' and throw your christian out the window. My edit not his.
Are we Like-Christ or are we Christians? I strive to be like Him!
I choose - not to be like Christians.
I agree = "Everyone can have a role in this expanding kingdom - women and men, masters and servants, powerful and powerless, old and young, urban and rural, white collar and blue collar, previously religious and previously irreligious."
In fact, I would argue that Christianity is declining in America because too few people see themselves as having a role in kingdom expansion.
BUT...
I disagree with McLaren's final sentence in this quote.
1. I don't know very many Christ-follwers who would see Christianity as a set of rituals. Possibly those who were raised as Catholics may have this view (I've talked to many former Catholics who share this perspective).
Who does McLaren have in mind when he makes a statement that "Christianity sees itself more as a belief system or set of rituals fo the select few and less as a way of daily life..."? Does he mean evangelical Christians? Does he mean "most" Christians?
I'm tired of the "straw man" approach that paints a generalized picture of Christianity or Purpose-Driven Churches or Evangelicals or Fundamentalists or Charismatics and then starts to poke fingers at them. Why is it necessary to attack and protest what others are doing to make yourself look right or feel right about what you are doing?
I believe that transformation will only come as those who have been transformed by Jesus become "ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us..." ( 2 Corinthians 5:21)
2. When McLaren observes that there is a problem with Christianity because it sees itself as a belief system for the few - I think that Jesus may disagree with him.
"The way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it." Jesus (Matthew 7:14)
Brian McLaren closes the quote with this final thought: When Christianity sees itself more as a belief system or set of rituals for the select few and less as a way of daily life available to all, it loses the 'magic' of the kingdom." (end quote)
Dave you bring up some great points. As I read "The Secret Message of Jesus" I took this to mean that we have exclusivity in the Body of Christ espec. in America and the American Church is largely characterized as people who do not practice as a way of life what is supposedly believed or practiced in rituals. Living out the way of Christ is available to all but the al do not and will not receive THE WAY!
I do not accept all the teaching/writing of Brian McLaren but he is stirring the pot and she boils in places where American Christianity needs to boil over.
Dave D -Why is it necessary to attack and protest what others are doing to make yourself look right or feel right about what you are doing?
the Planter - I agree totally that it is wrong for people to attack and protest what others are doing in order to make oneself look good and feel right themselves.
At the same time with reference to the above - I would hope the people you speak of and others would attack and protest anyone or vehicle that hinders what it means to be missional. And my reference to Missional is never a programmed outreach event but rather a lifestyle lived out in community as true Christ followers - who are Christ followers because they are following Jesus. We might want to start following Him through the supremacy of the Great Commission.
And, I know I have your "Amen" to this.
Terry said: Mike - I am sorry for the way you feel about the possibility of God using you to change the world. As I have studied Christian history I have found that God uses surrendered hearts to change the world.
Mike now: I'm afraid you have taken the wrong path with my thought...I do not feel defeated or ineffective in my Christian walk.
I, personally, am not seeking, do not want, will run from "growing influence" over the world. One doesn't have to look very far to see what's become of Christians who have sought "growing influence" over the world.
I do not want to change the world -- I want to change the world for one person at a time. I just haven't found my ideal way to do that yet. Bobert would have me pray for God to send one person -- and I have.
I respect Bob's approach -- very much. But either God doesn't want me to work that way or I'm not as open to His leading as I believe I am. The work I do (my real work, not my daily work) is very insular -- I write fiction. When God decides it's time, I will touch one person at a time as that person opens my book with what I hope is a very clear, though not didactic, Great Commission message.
Am I making sense yet?
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