Oh boy, again!
For those of you who agree that the American church is on life support, how much deconstruction do you think/believe is needed to get her back on the front lines whatever you think that is?
posted by Bob Carder @ 1:42 PM
9 comments
9 Comments:
The biggest challenge is to recognize that just because some results are happening it does not mean we should continue down the path we are on. Many I speak to will not risk giving up the marginally effective. They make claims about how much good happens in their church. The statistics are clear but many will not admit it.
The people that are willing to take risks will be the first to venture out. They are giving up everything and willing to reconstruct from the ground up.
The answer to your question will be a product of the current church leadership. If they wait to embrace change then many will have already jumped onto new ships. If they embrace the reality of the inevitable changes then they can begin to modify their ministry from programs to discipleship centered. This may require less change.
I think the focus must shift from how much change to getting an agreement from more people that change must occur.
Good stuff P. Terry. Your final sentence sums it up.
It is not only an American problem, but the problem is world wide. Where I am in South Africa, we have exactly the same problem.
The same questions you ask, I asked six or seven years ago. The answers I found are not the answers most people would like. I wrote all my questions and answers in a couple of books, but our local Christian publishers are to scared to publish the books as it would leave most of the well learned pastors without a job, as they have no idea what Church is.
If anyone is interested in my answers, they are posted on our website at http://www.shama.co.za in either ebook format, or as a discussion document one of the two forums.
Oops. Sorry wrong webaddress. Should be http://www.shama.org.za
Lowrens, I'll check it out in a few days. The reason you have the same problems in South Africa is because we sent westernized Christianity your way through our missionaries. Your problem, God's problem was exported from America. God help us.
How could we do such a thing?
Bob: You make it sound like we did this "evil" thing on purpose.
How could we? It was what we thought God was calling us to at the time! Missionaries who went over there (or to any country) did so out of a sincere desire to serve God and spread His good news in the best way they knew how.
Next thing you know, you'll be apologizing for spreading the gospel because it wasn't done in this "new" disciple-making mode. The gospel was spread, lives were changed, are being changed.
We have nothing to be sorry about. We can't teach something we don't know.
Because I know you, I know your words aren't inflammatory. But you need to be aware that not everyone will know that.
Mike & company, Just because we did what we thought was right and with complete heart commitment doesn't change the fact that the church is in trouble today and desperate problems require desperate measures. We didn't do it on purpose but if we continue now that we know it will be on purpose. I'm not talking about our history, I am speaking of the mess and path we are walking in. Now that we see the problem - let's not continue the problem on purpose.
Lives were and are being changed. Thank God for that, but what about those who live in the day when there is no cultural impact because the church in America has no influence.
If we act with a sense of do or die urgency millions could be changed as the church is mobilized to reach our culture on the outside.
I did some good in 24 years of senior leadership but I was also part of the problem. I repent. Let's all repent and get to the task at hand. The American church is following in the same footsteps of Europe - does anyone want this for America?
All who are comfortable and all who cannot see that we need a new paradigm need to be knocked on their butts like I am constantly. Why do we want to wait for Jesus to do it as we stand before Him in judgement. I'd rather obey now - am I alone here?
Inflammatory? If the shoe fits -wear the stupid thing.
I agree we are now responsible, knowing a better way.
I'm just concerned that when you say things that seem condemning of what was done in the past (what was done in full commitment and desire to serve God in the ONLY way we were taught to serve Him), then you unnecessarily make enemies (or at least unnecessarily antagonize) the very people you want to convince.
I don't think you can advance the future by condemning the past. Far more soul-stirring is pointing out the effectiveness of what's being done now (the recent stories of True Vine) and inviting people to participate. That's my opinion.
Mike, do you think people are getting defensive?
Are your remarks related to the post or my comments?
Stop and realize that if they feel antagonized they more than likely will not be convinced. If people are open to know more - I'll just let them ask. If not, they can write me off.
I will move with the movers and I will not try to change those who refuse to consider new paradigms.
Perhaps I could do it another nicer way. But as I stated, "Desperate times deserve desperate measures." As hard as I try I find it very hard to soft peddle so as to not offend or shake or stir the pot.
May the tribe of radical exiles join the fight to move into a New Testament paradigm.
I'll consider further your advice. I will think further on your thoughts as you consider mine.
Post a Comment
<< Home