Who cares who is right as long as Jesus is?
Today I was thinking about all the stuff we are dealing with these days regarding the ineffective American Church. Some think I come across like I am right and everyone is wrong. I have a solutution.
Who cares?
Let's move with those who see the problem or at least suspect it. I am ready to move with the moves and shakers and for others who think they are fine, let em be fine.
Time is short, we must run with those who are ready to run. Is it possible that we might wait too long for others to be convinced that the church in America is losing?
Come on, let's run with it and stop babying those who think we are whatevr. Think what you want, but we are in need of God's anointing and power. It is not about me being right. It is about what Jesus says is right and what we are doing about it. Just read the Word and tell me who is right. Maybe I am not, maybe I am, but I don't care because Jesus is always as right as His word.
Who cares as long as Jesus is right. Let's follow Him.
posted by Bob Carder @ 12:45 AM
6 comments
6 Comments:
Ok - we know that Jesus is right about everything. So, let's keep following Jesus and commit ourselves wholeheartedly to His redemptive mission!
However, do you think that it is possible that "others" in institutional churches can "be convinced that the church in America is losing"?
It certainly is possible that waiting for them to "get it" is a waste of time. Bob, starting new churches with new believers is the best use of your time! Keep pressing on!
Again, I have to ask. What is it you want to see happen? What is the vision you have? I want to see change. I am seeing change. I believe God is a work... I know He is. So what is it that you are looking for.
I'm sorry "davedv" I don't know that just starting a bunch of neew church's solves the problem. The problems we see today have taken 2000 years to develope. Not the best anology but it's all I have at the moment. You can give an alcholic a new liver but that doesn't solve the problem. There has to be an internal change or the liver will just become sick again.
You need not respond on here Bob. Feel free to email me. I send you my address.
- Nick Mullis T
Davedv, I believe leaders can be convinced of the state of the church (as you have seen)and I believe those who are convinced will have to break out of institutional systems of bondage and control to do something about it in a new paradigm. As for the others most will die on the hill of self-righteous purity from the world.
In my ministry of past the stakeholders always seem to reach a level of discomfort as the new came in and began to lead. The stakeholders then dug in and led the revolt back to dysfunction and original DNA. That was so sad for me, I knew God wanted more, but they couldn't hear of it.
I have decided unless the Holy Spirit can open minds and hearts my efforts are in vain. I just throw out the possibilities of a new day. I'm finding that most refuse to imagine a work of God outside our Americanized sinking ship.
I join with you, a new work is needed through disciple multiplying (missional) churches . It is a waste of the short time we have to argue and debate with the entrenched.
In our Midwest district we have pastors and leaders committed to missional -incarnational disciple making and we have very positive things occurring, but we have Supt. Ortmann leading the charge. Our pastors and many influential movers are getting on board. Time will tell. In the meantime we are not starting anymore same-o and we will only do new stuff as Jesus commands in His word through a new non-westernized wineskin/paradigm.
Brother move with the movers and don't let anyone pull in your reins.
God is raising up an army who refuse to maintain a sitting church.
Nick - you are asking the right questions. It is very difficult to see what we are doing outside of what we know the church to be. But if you continue to open your mind to a new paradigm you will not believe the ministry God has in store.
The Church in America is dying and unless a new paradigm of Great Commissional living is engaged we will end up like Europe. In the next 20 years and I believe sooner we could lose half to over three fourths of the churches in America.
People want to "go to church" and call that "the Church" and nothing could be further from Scripture. We don't just go to church as the main thing, we must move out of the pews and into the world.
We don't need buildings, budgets and more butts in pews, we need to be people who show the world who Jesus is while living with those who are lost, searching, weak, poor hungry and dying without Him.
Nick, I also want to help move the church in America from Churchianity to Christianity.
There is a huge difference.
I believe Isaiah gave us the answer to what we should be doing in Church. What does Isaiah declare true religion is? I include the scripture as given to us in “The Message”, as the writer of this puts it across extremely aptly: "Shout! A full-throated shout! Hold nothing back--a trumpet-blast shout! Tell my people what's wrong with their lives, face my family Jacob with their sins! They're busy, busy, busy at worship, and love studying all about me. To all appearances they're a nation of right-living people-- law-abiding, God-honouring. They ask me, 'What's the right thing to do?' and love having me on their side. But they also complain, 'Why do we fast and you don't look our way? Why do we humble ourselves and you don't even notice?' "Well, here's why: "The bottom line on your 'fast days' is profit. You drive your employees much too hard. You fast, but at the same time you bicker and fight. You fast, but you swing a mean fist. The kind of fasting you do won't get your prayers off the ground. Do you think this is the kind of fast day I'm after: a day to show off humility? To put on a pious long face and parade around solemnly in black? Do you call that fasting, a fast day that I, GOD, would like? "This is the kind of fast day I'm after: to break the chains of injustice, get rid of exploitation in the workplace, free the oppressed, cancel debts. What I'm interested in seeing you do is: sharing your food with the hungry, inviting the homeless poor into your homes, putting clothes on the shivering ill-clad, being available to your own families. Do this and the lights will turn on, and your lives will turn around at once. Your righteousness will pave your way. The GOD of glory will secure your passage. Then when you pray, GOD will answer. You'll call out for help and I'll say, 'Here I am.' "If you get rid of unfair practices, quit blaming victims, quit gossiping about other people's sins, If you are generous with the hungry and start giving yourselves to the down-and-out, Your lives will begin to glow in the darkness, your shadowed lives will be bathed in sunlight. I will always show you where to go. I'll give you a full life in the emptiest of places-- firm muscles, strong bones. You'll be like a well-watered garden, a gurgling spring that never runs dry. You'll use the old rubble of past lives to build anew, rebuild the foundations from out of your past. You'll be known as those who can fix anything, restore old ruins, rebuild and renovate, make the community liveable again. "If you watch your step on the Sabbath and don't use my holy day for personal advantage, If you treat the Sabbath as a day of joy, GOD's holy day as a celebration, If you honour it by refusing 'business as usual,' making money, running here and there-- Then you'll be free to enjoy GOD! Oh, I'll make you ride high and soar above it all. I'll make you feast on the inheritance of your ancestor Jacob." Yes! GOD says so! (Isaiah 58:1-14)
This is part of an article that can be found at http://www.shamaministries.org.za/moses/YaBB.pl?num=1164192460
Regards
Louwrens
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