So shocking!
Michelle in I had some friends drop by today and we shared some breakfast and allot of catching up. It was the highlight of our day. I'm so blessed to have these people supporting my missionary work as well as praying for God breakthroughs.
My friend went to church yesterday. He thought he'd try Sunday school and that's what he did. As the teacher was teaching, several in the class noticed a father and son playing catch in the empty portion of the church parking lot. One grumbled then another and another. One even said, "Someone needs to tell them they cannot play here -this is private property." My friend who was the visitor told the class, "that they should show love." He said, "Here you are trying to grow this ministry and you want to go out and kick them off the church property, why would you do that? Another chimed in and argued that they had no business playing catch on the church parking lot.
Suddenly a lady whose name I will not mention went out and told the father and the son that they had to leave the parking lot because it is private property.
My wise and visiting friend replied upon her return, "You should have gone out there and told the guys that they were welcome to use our restroom or come in and get a drink of water, since it was very hot outside. Wouldn't that had been a better way to show the father and his son what love is and about who we are in Christ?"
I call this a dying church, one that looks good on the outside with a beautiful campus, but people are leaving and attitudes like those mentioned here are growing. What used to be a full parking lot is now full of empty spaces, as are the pews.
Not only does this shock me, but it saddened me more. A Father and son saw the church building and maybe thought, why not play catch in the wide open space in the view of the steeple with a cross. As they did they were rejected and kicked off the property.I sure hope they shook the dust off their feet upon leaving the "private property".
Is there any wonder why people are not checking the church out, but instead they are by the droves checking out of church? And, you can check out of the church without ever going there in the first place.
Comments or other shocking stories?
posted by Bob Carder @ 3:24 PM
19 comments
19 Comments:
how do you keep finding these people.
it couldn't be more sad.....
Adam, they are all too easy to find in the American church.
What is sad it that stories like these are multiplied over and over again and again.
In this case the teacher never stepped in and defended the truth. He just let the gal walk out and expel the father and son from the "private property".
Then the class went into an almost
congratulatory state. She became the hero!
Judy, you got that right.
Not to offer an "excuse" for this event (Bob, you know that's true), but how many of us look at the actions of the Israelites in alternately embracing and shunning God's love and attention and think, "Oh my goodness! How could they be so dense? If I had been there, I would have believed."
Or how many of us look at the stories in the New Testament and think "How could they not see who He was? I would have known Him."
It's easy to look at someone else's error in hindsight and think, "Oh my goodness ... how could they?"
Our challenge is to not condemn, but learn -- and then teach.
Oh sorry, that anonymous above is me. I must have hit the wrong button.
I knew it was you, Mike. The reason stories like these appear here is to help others learn and teach. I am not the one who condemns/convicts that's the Holy Spirit's job. But for me, this is a teachable moment and I sure want to seize it to help others see how the church acts in front of people.
When things like this happen there is usually a culture in the church that has developed.
Things lead to things like this. For instance, you have to be a member to use our gym, you have to attend here to use our church for weddings, we do not rent our facility out for community functions. And, while doing such, we end up calling ourselves a community church. And, we claim to love reaching the lost.
If I had been there on Sunday I would have thrown a chair through the window.
I agree it is a teachable moment. Absolutely.
It only takes a few to ruin the reputation of Christ followers. It only takes a few to beat the drum for a better reputation.
Why the last church I pastored someone kicked a newcomer out of her pew. They were sitting in her spot. I addressed it! I even told the congregation that it happened so that no one else would get any such ideas themselves. Them their pews are not your pews. I recently attended a church and just hung back to see if anyone would speak to me. I went in and out and the only conversations I had were those I initiated. They clearly loved each other but never saw the visitor. This happens all the time.
I also believe that the pastor has a great roll in setting the culture of the church. He sets the vision and he can make it clear what goes and what doesn't. In the case of the blog the one who kicked the father/son off the church grounds was a church employee.
You and I can make a difference by speaking against such behavior. When I see it, I speak to those who do it. One of these days some christian (small c intended here) is going to slug me. What would Jesus do is a good starting point when confronting those who cause grave danger to the reputation of Jesus.
So, I speak up for Jesus! And, I encourage my blog friends to do the same.
The Planter said:
So, I speak up for Jesus! And, I encourage my blog friends to do the same.
Mike E. says: And I want you to do just that -- with mercy, grace, and understanding that not everyone knows what you and I know. It's not about whether they SHOULD know it or not (as Christians they should) but if they haven't been taught, how do they know?
And I'm NOT suggesting your comments were at ALL inappropriate. I guess I was trying to pre-emptively set a tone for the discussion. (That's the peacemaker in me ... you know I hate dissension...)
Don't want you to be someone you aren't, Bobert. Love you as you are.
I have been in the shoes of the little boy. Not exactly the same scenario, but just as damaging. Thirty one years ago I was on the corner of the lot so to speak as a Church that was once on fire with a bus ministry to the Un-churched kids in the community decided that it was too much effort to deal with all the wild and rowdy un - churched children. We were in essence asked to leave the private property by not being picked up anymore. I would like to have known what discipleship and nurturing opportunities that may have been available during the twelve years that I was “removed” from the property. I can’t help but think of those that did not have the opportunity to return and even ran and are still running as hard as possible the other way. I know this grieves that very heart of God. Jesus spoke of the high standards He expects from His followers and what would be better for them if they cause one of these little ones to stumble…Let us pray not only for this father and son, but also for those that missed the opportunity to truly show the Love of Christ. Pray for those in the class that new this was wrong and followed the lead of the “spiritually superior” leadership. Lord, give them strength to seek true discipleship. In Philippians 2:3-5 we read “Don't be selfish; don't live to make a good impression on others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourself. Don't think only about your own affairs, but be interested in others, too, and what they are doing. Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had.” May we all seek this attitude and have awareness when we fail and the wisdom to humbly correct when possible.
b morris, are you saying that the church should not have ever started the ministry if they couldn't continue it forever?
From what you've shared (and that's all the knowledge I have about the situatioin), it doesn't seem you were "removed" from the property (a negative) as much as the simple fact that the ministry ended (a neutral).
Maybe the church determined there was a better way for them to minister? Don't know, just wondering.
Mike,
You are correct in your general observation. As a 10 year old it was especially a neutral event. It was even a positive event for my secular / un-churched parents as they could then focus their recreational time on the weekends at the lake as opposed to returning home and having me ready for church every Sunday. I was not aware of it being a potential negative event until I returned to this same church and found myself in a position of leadership faced with a similar decision of reaching out to the secular / un-churched children in our community through a bus ministry. An elderly leader made a comment that “we had been down this road before and it caused us nothing but problems.” He stated that the kids were unruly, used foul language in the hallways, and even skipped out on during Sunday school to go to a local drug store (they were not yet referred to as a pharmacy). The store owner apparently called the Church and complained because these kids would hang out there and then return to the Church for the bus ride home. I guess I was comparing the elderly leader’s comments to the church employee’s action in the above mentioned story. They both had / have about the same vision for discipleship and outreach. The problem is that many of churches across the land are lead and governed by individuals that are of the same mindset and vision. It you want the opportunities of discipleship; you are going to have to breakthrough and step across the threshold of the church on their terms. The father / son in the story were asked to leave because they did not do this properly. I know that stepping onto the church property to play ball may not be a parallel to stepping across the threshold hungry for discipleship, but I will assure you that the father had a sense of “safety” using the church property as compared to a local business property. The father will probably not be open to other outreach opportunities by church members or even co-workers. I am working on developing a passion for workplace ministry and this is a huge issue. When you are a Christ follower, you have to be consistent in your discipleship and actions no matter where you are and what decision you may be involved in. I guess bottom line is that I am in more agreement with Bob’s recommendation of approaching with an offer of the restrooms and a water fountain on a hot day. There is a way to approach even if you have to change behavior, but the light has to remain shining and not be snuffed out like our church employee did with her showcase of a trip to the parking lot that became the teaching lesson of the Sunday school class. After thinking through your response, it looks like the foundational issue is discipleship of those that call themselves Christ followers and congregate in what we know as the church. Bringing the church into the Church so to speak. I guess I am thankful to have had the opportunities for seed planting back from the bus ministry days. I for some reason have a warm place for felt boards and cut out bible characters? I am also thankful for passionate teachers that found merit on leading unruly kids in prayer. I may have missed out on memorizing the 66 books of the Bible, but I have since learned to live in a way of discipleship that seeks to understand and apply the Word from a holistic perspective, the stories are not just felt board stories, they are real people who lived real lives and are part of the cannon for us to use as a foundation and guidance. Paul’s epistles are not there just for a brief extraction of a verse or two occasionally, this was a passionate man with a vision of discipleship for these churches. Jesus’ words are not just in red, they are the words that are key to our discipleship. These words, as well as all scripture, should make our hearts strangely warm as we walk along the with Him as our spiritual forefathers did on that day to Emmaus. Mike, thank you for your response and God bless you in His calling upon your life.
Great story, thanks for the additional info. Interesting to have returned to the church as an adult and be told that "you" were too much troublee as a kid.
Of course, not you personally, but interesting none-the-less.
And your comments illustrate a key point of Scripture: Some will scatter seed, some will plant, some will nurture, some will reap. Our actions, as individuals and as churches, will have repercussions days, weeks, even years, down the line.
Bless you too!
i went to church yesterday morning, too. I went to one of the indy fm churches. and I just felt terrible for that poor pastor. young guy, lots of energy, good preacher, actually introduced himself to me.
but that church......it just fit all the stereotypes of the 'dying' church you talk about here.
Your story is repeated hundreds and thousands of times every Sunday. God help us BE the CHURCH that is alive and vibrant. After all doesn't Jesus give life? In some churches (locations) it looks and feels like Jesus give the opposite of life (whatever that is).
Blessings on you, Adam!
Byron, I read your comments over and over again. While a sad story, it was a well written and a very insightful feed.
I was one of those bus captains when I was 16 years old. My dad drove the bus. We picked up over 100 children. It grew so much that the church we attended bought 2 new vans and we ran the bus one way and the vans went to other parts of the city. I guess I'm thankful I was away at college when our church shut her down. I could never figure that out because there were then and still are children who need a ride to church.
There just aren't any more church bus ministries to pick them up. They say bus ministries are a thing of the past and they are, but it never had to be this way.
Those were the days when huge investments were made in the lives of children. As we became the church of bigger buildings and programs we needed families with tithing resources to foot the bill. Bus ministries never paid for themselves or brought in revenue and thus I conclude this is the reason they died.
I guess the church made it a thing of the past while children still need the Lord. Thank God you found Him, Byron!
I personally witnessed a situation that made me weep inside. Our new Church plant was looking at using a building in our town to open a third place, come coffee house, or whatever God led us into. In one part of the building was a door that led through into a dingy bar frequented by the type of people Jesus associated with. One of our number stated emphatically that the door would need to be nailed shut to keep these people out of our third place. I couldn't restrain myself and had to ask "Aren't these the people we are trying to bring Gods message of hope and love to"?
Classic closed door, four wall, safe club mentality wouldn't you say?
Brian C
Anon..Isn't that just like those professors.. Wonder how differently they would respond if they possessed what they professed.
Jesus would never enter a heart and live like that person who wants to nail the door shut. Jesus would not even be in the 3rd place space, I can see Him sitting at the bar having a sip of wine and telling people about the reason He was there. And those misfits at the bar would be saved and redeemed!
Mike E. People are dying everyday without Jesus and the church in America stands by and we do church. Little tears are shed for the dying and hell bound, we shed tears for our own aches and pains, our emotional hurts and we even get our feelings hurt and the pastor has to visit us to get back into our good graces. All this while people are dying by the masses and going to a life-less eternity. I think it's time for holy and Jesus bold confrontation.
Be a peacemaker but get angry. Jesus came to bring peace, but in order for peace in the human heart, He had to also make them angry.
I want people to get mad, if the shoe fits wear it. If people get mad, why? I want people to get mad about a lazy American church and become angry at the multitudes who die everyday without Jesus.
I'm angry and I'm mad that so many die without ever hearing about Jesus and without ever seeing Jesus in us. Instead, they see church and Christians who do next to nothing to change the world.
Instead, they see a church that believes it is making a difference, but we are not called to make a difference, we are called to change the world.
Now with all the mercy and grace I can muster up, let's get off our butts, these are serious times that demand drastic actions.
Now let's get angry about something that deserves holy indignation.
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