Today, I had lunch.....
Today I had lunch with my brother Rick and his family. We talked briefly about Jesus turning water into wine. I changed the subject!
Was it real wine?
Was it fresh without fermentation?
Was it fresh with miraculous fermentation?
Did Jesus drink and make real wine?
Have you read the passage of Scripture that talks about this wine being the best ever?
Are we we missing something here?
What are we missing?
Are we creating a barrier that need not be a hurdle for the world?
What does Jesus really think about wine?
Let's deal with this issue once and for all.
posted by Bob Carder @ 11:16 PM
10 comments
10 Comments:
Alcohol is a non-issue for me, UNLESS a person takes it to excess then it becomes sin OR a person causes a less mature brother or sister to fall because of it.
But that's not really the point, is it? I have freedom in Christ to drink alcohol occasionally, if I choose and am responsible in doing so. But I also have the freedom NOT to drink alcohol. Just because I can do something, doesn't mean I have to or even that I should.
I have the freedom to sunbathe all day if I want to, but that doesn't mean its good for me or that I should do it just because I can and it doesn't hurt anyone else. Because it would hurt me! :)
Great comments here. But, did Jesus make real fermented wine?
Are we in the church advocating a misinterpretation of Jesus turning water into wine to fit our own theology? Don't you think the world sees through this?
Remember, anything we do excess is harmful. Watching too much television is harmful. Taking too many baths is harmful. Drinking too much water is harmful.
But taking scriptures out of context to fit our own theology is very damaging to the message of Christ. Who do we think we are? Not you Mike, who do we in the church think we are to take these liberties with the Word of God?
I have to believe it really was a fermented wine. Why? Because:
A. That's what it says.
B. From what I know historically, it was common practice to drink wine (fermented) in those societies.
There was no Temperance Union then! And no need for one. But the Bible also cautions against too much alcohol (Noah and his nakedness comes to mind...)
I found this from Goodmanson.com
Most Christians hold one of 3 common views of alcohol (see: Jesus Christ-King of the Brews):
a. Prohibitionist: The Bible teaches that alcohol consumption is totally forbidden by scripture.
b. Abstentionist: Although the Bible does not expressly forbid the drinking of alcoholic beverages, the consumption of alcohol in our society is reckless and should not be condoned.
c. Moderationist: Alcohol is permitted for Christians as long as consumed in moderation and in a careful manner.
All three of these positions begin in defeat. Are we willing to say anything is beyond redemption?
"The church, the bride, is a redemptive community. We live not only the experience of redemption (I'm redeemed/being redeemed) but also the works of redemption (I'm redeeming). That's why our mission is both words and works, speaking and doing redemption. And if we are working out our salvation through being redeemed and redeeming, then our response to cultural abuses is not to abstain but to redeem. That not only pushes us to maturity by teaching us how to eat, drink, and have sex to the glory of God (though it won't come easy), but it is also a witness to the world that God redeems.
* The pervert throws away the pornography (abuse) and learns to love sex with his wife (redemption).
* The glutton hittin’ up the all-you-can eat buffet 6-7 times (abuse) and learns to order a salad with light dressing instead (redemption).
* The alcohol abuser stops drinking until drunk (abuse) and learns to stop enjoy a beer or two as from God’s bounty (redemption).
thot provoking huh?
I agree with you, but I'm left with this thought:
Good friends of mine had a young daughter who was killed in a car crash, two other children who were permanently paralyzed from the waist down, and extensive injuries to the mother and father, too. The driver of the other car had been drinking.
As a result, when they healed, they founded a ministry. Long story short: We went to NY following 911 to minister to people there who lost loved ones. One of our contacts there was a very generous, thought not a Christian man, who wanted to treat the whole team to dinner at his favorite Italian restaurant.
Of course, that included wine. Since I do not personally have a problem with alcohol, I had one small glass of wine to enhance the dinner as much as to honor our host. As did several other members of the team. Other team members did not.
The next day the couple who started the ministry shared, before our work for that day began, that the consumption of alcohol by members of the team hurt them, personally, not because of any biblical prohibition against it but because of the effect alcohol abuse had had on their lives.
I will never forget the way I let them down that day.
There was nothign wrong with the alcohol. There was nothing wrong with me having a glass. But I was insensitive to their situation, their ongoing pain. I didn't cause them to stumble, but I caused them pain.
The wine I enjoyed was not worth the distress it caused my friends.
I don't want to drink alcohol simply because I can. But that's my choice. For me that is a redeeming choice.
Mike, just know that I must be feeling better to be back to my trouble causing self.
YAHOOOOOO I feel good.
Look out blogland, here comes Bob!
Oh, Bobert, this is mild for you...
I will admit one thing. If I would have been at the wedding I would have tried the brew. Anything Jesus makes is worth trying at least once. Or isn't it?
I had to rethink that comment since Jesus made allot of stuff I shouldn't try. But His wine, I would try. He made it to drink it at the wedding.
And you can be sure, some people drank to much with all the effects of fermented wine. Was Jesus wrong here?
Mike, saying this is mild for me is like saying "sickem" to a bulldog. Quit egging me on...you bad boy.
heh heh heh
heh heh heh haaaaaa!
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