You can't always...
You can't always do what God is calling you to do while remaining in the old wine skin.
The Holy Spirit still breaths new wine into new skins. History reveals this truth over and over again.
God is the great God of creativity. Just look around at people with their gifts, at trees and her leafs, at flowers of all color, just to name a few.
Holy Spirit work through the Body of Christ is expressed beautifully in the redemptive work He calls us all into. The Holy Spirit still breaths life into new wine skins. And the new wine needs the new skin to carry her. Only a creative God could do this over and over again. He has to do this when we humans stall out His redemptive plan.
Sometimes you gotta be called out of the old and into the new for His redemptive work to continue at the level He leads. We don't get to make new wine skins. The Holy Spirit does that for us. He empowers the work, calls us into it and then provides the wine skins to care for it.
posted by Bob Carder @ 8:21 PM
43 comments
43 Comments:
I think I may be posting against my better judgement here because every other time I have posted I have been either taken out of context or bashed completely as being too conservative. But I think this deserves some sort of comment/discussion. I hope I can be clear enough here that everyone will understand me, and if there are disagreements, they will be discussed logically and respectfully.
Bob and company, my question is this:
Can you please explain to me why you keep using this analogy of wineskins? I've seen you using it a lot and just curious as to how you came up with it and why you use it. Is it really a good analogy of what we are doing (or ought to be doing) here?
Does the Holy Spirit really make anything new? I am not entirely convinced that he does. When God created the world, it was good. Now that it is fallen, he does not say that he will destroy it to make a completely brand new creation. He is working to RENEW what we have. He is redeeming this world, not starting over. Grace perfecting nature. Jesus says, "behold I make all things new" meaning he is going to renew them to their original intended state and purpose. Some may disagree, but I think this a proper interpretation of Christ's second coming. The New Heaven and New Earth will be THIS Heaven and THIS Earth in a redeemed and perfected state. Likewise with the Jewish religion, God did not make something completely new by creating the Christian church. Rather, he perfected and fulfilled the Jewish religion through his Son Jesus Christ. The grace by which we are justified through faith is the fulfillment and perfected state of the justification through the Law.
I get the sense from Scripture and from history that God has only created something brand new, "ex nihilo," at the Genesis account of Creation. Everything else has been just perfecting fallen states, redirecting where things go wrong, redeeming what is lost.
Could a better analogy of the work we ought to be doing be us partnering with God in filling the cracks of the broken clay jar? If the jar is broken, God is not going to make a new jar, but repair the one he has. He is not going to make a new wineskin, but fix the one he has. If you are going to be doing this work, you really should look on it as though you are reforming and repairing the jar that is broken rather than separating yourself completely and calling it a new wineskin. To use your wineskin stuff, we are not called to be in a new wineskin, but rather to be in the one that we have always had and be working with God to perfect its imperfections.
I agree with you that many things of the North American church are going wrong, but I do not believe that God has created a new wineskin that he wants us to join in. He has given us this wineskin and calls us to it. If it has cracks, which I think it may, let us not leave it and abandon it. Let us not go where God is not, or to a wineskin that God did not make. God is in this wineskin, the old one. I guess what I am getting at is this: are you working to fix the problems of the old wineskin, or are you branching out into a new wineskin thereby abandoning the one in which your own spiritual birthing took place? I think you know where I am. It is my prayer that we will partner with God and his grace here in the old wineskin to renew and perfect where we are falling short. Who will join me?
Jesus gave the original analogy of the new wineskin. Was he wrong about anything being new, or how are you taking that? Was Jesus wrong when he mad that analogy? What does the analogy mean to you? No one ever accused you of being too conservative. I do not believe you are conservative at all and I don't remember anyone else accusing you of such. Show me one place where your context was not quoted and considered.
Phil, I am with Eric, no one here did the things you accuse us of.
When old wine skins cannot hold the new wine of the Holy Spirit any longer a new skin is needed or the skins will burst.
I am walking into a new wine work of the Holy Spirit. It is unlike anything I experienced in the American Church. I am seeing for the first time in my life, the Church the Body of Christ really function like the Church - the Body of Christ.
You cannot tell me what God is or isn't calling me into or out of. Only God can do this for sure, right.
Being a cracked pot is nothing like being in a structure that will not give way for the Holy Spirit to work. Sometimes the rules of operation need to be broken to give way for new wine.
If the pot is cracked - all the repairing in the world won't seal her up water tight. Let's smash the pot and make a new one. Is that what you are saying we should do with your cracked pots? Or should we live with the leaks?
I refuse to let a church, a district or a denomination tell me what God can or cannot do. After all, HE alone is God!
eric, can you point me to where Jesus uses this analogy? I am not familiar with the passage. And if you do not consider me a conservative, then you surely must be reading past me. Which only proves to me that what I have said is not entirely understood. My ideas are quite on the conservative bend.
Bob, I really and honestly think that God does not make new things at this stage in history. He works to perfect and reform and redeem and renew that which is fallen, but does not abandon the old. He very well could have turned his back on Israel and left to pick another nation, but he didn't. He could very well turn his back on the American Church and start something brand new, but he doesn't. It goes against his nature. I do not see how God would just turn his back on his children like that, even if we do have a lot of problems. Isn't there something called grace? And doesn't that grace work to perfect our imperfections? I am not entirely convinced that God really wants us to start something new. I only think that he wants us to stay with the old, but partner with him in correcting its faults and failures. We do not need to smash the clay jars--to do so would be to work against God. God is working to fix our broken cracked parts. He wants us to work with him here.
Why do you insist that we embark on something entirely new? Is that really how God works?...He sees that the old is not working properly, so he gets fed up and destroys it only to create something brand new in its place? I do not see God working like that. Not now. Not ever.
He may not destroy what you refer to but He has destroyed things before. When Jesus came to earth the Early Church was birthed and that was a new thing.
God is always doing a new thing, He is too creative to be bored with our ways.
When tradition becomes traditionalism it always requires a new work of God. God is never content with the likes of traditionalism sin.
When structure or geographical restrictions limit God - it is time to move out and into the new work of God. CHurch history reveals this over an over again.
When the denomination fails then God has given birth to new wine skins. It just the very nature of God to do this.
The Wesleyan CHurch will need a rebirthing someday. You may see it sooner than later.
When Jesus came, the church was birthed, but it was not a new thing. It was a fulfillment and a perfection of the old thing. The new covenant is the perfection of the old covenant. You see, here's the thing. I want to believe that what you are doing is right and completely necessary. But I cannot quite see it yet. I think it would be better for you to have remained in the Missionary Church, despite its problems, and work at renewing and reforming it. The fact that you have "abandoned ship" tells me that you have lost all hope for the American Church. You only see a future where the old way is dead and the new one is alive. I cannot see that type of future. I see a future where the old way is made better by the working of God and the partnering of his people.
I am sorry that you have cut all ties with the denomination. I hope that you have made a good choice. But I have yet to see it as such. Perhaps someday I will, as you suggest. But until then, I am leaving your blog. I am done. You can now blog in peace.
You might learn something if you will have an open mind and hand around awhile.
I'm just doing what God is calling me into. You stay and reform the church but my life is too short for that now. I need to obey. Don't think for a second we haven't seriously considered this on bended knee.
Phil we are going to reach your generation that has abandoned ship. Someone has to reach them and it will not be those in the American Church who will do so. You gotta be out like they are to reach them.
Jesus said "And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, he pours new wine into new wineskins."
" (mark2:22)
that is our reference, and it is also in Matthew and Luke. In this passage, Jesus shows that putting new wine into an old wineskin destroys both of them, wasting them. in context, He also says that sewing a patch of unshrunk onto an old torn garment will inevitably make the tear worse.
THAT is why we talk about old and new wineskins. we have tried to work this (disciple-making) out in the old wineskin (the institutional church) and at best it has failed, at worst it destroyed the church building and demoralized the people involved. What God has given us to do CANNOT be done in the old system. That is all we have been saying. In the same way that the message of Jesus did not flourish within the synagouges, where they typically attempted to sieze, trap, or stone Him.
Zach speaks from personal experience. Thanks for sharing.
New wine for new skins.... This is an interesting passage. Jesus said many perplexing things and parables. He is indeed speaking of a time that many religious leaders could not embrace the truth and grace of Christ as Savior. I have to believe that the analogy of wine skins is referencing the Believer (the true church) but He is not providing an excuse for abandoning the Church in America. He is perhaps providing a context whereby the church can develop depth in the Spirit that can transform lives for Jesus. The Americanized church, though faulty, is still an instrument for God~it is, of course, you and me! So, if I cannot have this new wineskin ~ the New Creation of Christ ~ than what good is my faith? I think that inspite of the building or community of the body, God still has His remnant within the community to transform and testify of this newness of His Spirit working within. Perhaps the most dangerous implication of any believer is for them to believe that leaving the fellowship will somehow shape a new church spirit. Thankfully, Jesus didn't abandon the His disciples but instead came to live within them ~ both to transform (Pentecost) and enable this new work of the Spirit. One of the toughest challenges is to be salt and light within the community of The Church! This one got long ~ sorry.
I do not believe the disciple making church movement is abandoning the church in america--it is saving her. She is the church just as any group of believers is the church. There are plenty of pastors and people within the institutional church to try to help the "broken jar" But I believe God has called some out of the broken jar to reach those outside of the institutional church. Why would we question God's desire to reach an unreached people group?
The context of the wineskin parable is that The Pharisees where wondering why Jesus and his disciples were not participating in a certain fasting ritual. Jesus is explaining to them that their methods and traditions are not what is need right now for this time and this place because he was doing something new. Today is a time for something new! The organized church is not the old wineskins--there methods and structures are--the people attending them are the church not the wineskins. All through History God has given us new wineskins when the old ones where not showing his Glory and when the old ones were not reaching a new generation--Why does this surprise us? We have been frustrated for years with our wineskins. We have listened to the statistics that we are reaching only 4% of the Bridger generation and that we are keeping less than 30% of our high school graduates! Why would it surprise us that God has called forth a new wineskin for this time and this place to save a generation?
rick (or would you prefer reverend?)-
i think you have misunderstood my statement. all i said is that what God has called us to CANNOT be done the way things have always been done in the institution of the church. I never said anything about abandonment, but i know that we have been called to leave the old behind and walk on toward the new, and my stance has always been that if God hasnt called you to us, stay away. God has something else for you. He has been teaching me a great deal about timing these past few weeks, that His is flawless and glorious! and ive been seeing HIm set the stage for a revelation of His glory that i cant quite begin to understand, reveal or share with you, for the time is not right. But i know that He has put everyone in their place. i no nothing of anyone elses place, but know where God has put me right now, and what He has revealed to me that i must do. and that is what i described in my last post.
Brother Rick, The new wine skin is the vehicle that holds the new Holy Spirit work. It will take this new work of God to reach those who have abandoned the church or who are lost and cannot be reached by the American Church in her structural forms of control.
We are not leaving the Body of Christ. We are not abandoning our brothers and sisters we are all still in the family. We'll let all of you join us in reaching the lost and especially the younger generations who love Jesus but cannot find Him in the American Church.
As a college administrator you should be able to see that younger generations are leaving the church or have left the church. We are redeeming them.
Bravo to Marti and Zack for your excellent address here.
1. The American church is itself the result of something being done in a "new" way.
2. The churches birthed by Protestant Reformation was the result of something being done in "new" way.
3. The churches birthed by the Catholic/Orthodox movements/split were of a "new" thing.
4. The Universal Church existing prior to 1054 was the result of a "new" thing.
5. The "Christian Church" as it is today formed of Constantine's "new" way.
Seems to me that when things are done with a "new" intention they become more of what man appreciates/desires and less of what God intended.
If Jesus instituted disciples making disciples, and that is what you are doing- is that not more doing things the "old" way? The return to that ancient form is not as much doing something new as it is remembering and accepting the original plan without the modifications man has made over the years. Or do we not remember that Jesus didn't build a temple to meet in, call roll, or merge His Body with the government?
We seem to forget that the American Church, Protestant belief system, Catholic Tradition, Orthodox Tradition, Universal Hope, Christendom, and indeed, the instituted/politically formed and allied were all "new" things that changed again and again what Jesus put in place. Disciple making is not "new," rather, it's older than we can remember or appreciate.
Or am I wrong? Seems like there have been several "new" wineskins and each of them took away from the flavor of the Wine they contained. I will say it plainly, the way it is taking place today is new to us, but it is indeed the oldest of works regarding the Church.
gn: I think the newness is not in the philosophy but in the way we work it out--the methods. Wineskins in the scripture contexts represent methods or structures not philosophy or purpose. The newness needs to be in the methods we use. The philosophy of disciple making is of course jesus mandate--it is not new. How ever the work of the spirit in each generation, each culture, each person is always unique and new. It is this uniqueness for our time in history that cannot seem to fit into the old methods that man has created. We must listen carefully to the Holy Spirit to make sure we do not create synthetic (man made) wineskins for the unique work he has for this generation. We must allow him to create the authentic wineskins that will hold his new work.
Amen Martilou!
Martilou- you are a true leader in this new thing. God bless and raise you up.
Thank you bob. There is not much affirmation going around where I am these days.
Phil sorry I didn't post sooner with the reference. Just checked back a bit a go. Only the Holy Spirit can make scripture come alive for you...you know more about your traditions than the words of Jesus Christ. Repent to Him.
Eric, such an arrogant and prideful response to Phil...repent. Who are you to make such a statement to a believer and disciple? When is it your place to speak such harsh judgment? I know Phil and his personal faith in Christ-he longs to be a disciple of Christ. This blog is way off base to offend a brother in Christ! Many of these pseudo-theology comments are not very well grounded though interesting to consider however, no one should place themselves in such regard as a judge...placing your authority over another brother.
Bob, get real with this blog. Who are you surrounding yourself with and why have you consumed yourself with such fault finding, negative people? PHIL IS ONE OF YOUR DISCIPLES YET HE IS CALLED TO REPENT WITH LITTLE REGARD AND HE IS CHARACTERIZED IN THIS MATTER! This comment should have been rejected by you the moderator!
Your new wine is not attractive - it is condemning. How could the lost find hope and grace? Never forget bloggers, the what the world is looking for is an authentic love Characterized by our words, works, deeds and demonstrated Grace. How will 'they' come to Christ in your new wine and new skin if you have such carnal actions? I am saddened by where this blog has come to!
Rick you misunderstood the entire feed by becoming defensive here. You are missing it.
What pains me more is that you will have the nerve to write what you do and never call me.
Eric may be trying to help Phil move out of his small Christianity box. I think we all need to repent as we move into the days of Disciple making abundance and out of our worship of traditionalism.
Quit defending Phil for His comments...He made them...He needs to defend them. Phil's a big boy and in some cases along the way other college students his age have been discussing things with him. So because of that - I'm letting him (Phil)deal with it - He needs to address his own generation. Let Him grow up - release him from his shelter.
This new wine is not attractive because you enjoy your attractional - denominational-ism that refuses to become obedience personally and deliberately to the Great Commission. Why do you allow professing believers off the Great Commission hook?
Believe me - the world is hungry for the life transforming Jesus -- setting people free grace. You can keep your lubby dubby approach. The world is not won with a grace that says it is O.K. to live in disobedience to the Great Commission. I'm getting in your face with Truth! And when I get in the face of those who are lost - they often respond with obedience. They know the cost and the price for following Jesus and allowing the Holy Spirit to be birthed in them.
The call of Jesus is not a whimpy call to surrender. It is a surrender of your will and your life in complete obedience.
I do not defend what you do any longer. In fact I am calling the modern American Church of of disobedience and into obedience.
I think we should all be free to speak truth into someone's life. If the shoe fits so be it. If it is not true than discuss it. But it is high time we believers hold each other accountable.
I repent for not insisting that all believers make disciples or face their disobedience. I failed them. I repent. I was their spiritual leader and I failed them. May God have mercy on my soul.
you have got to be kidding me!! I randomly stumble back to the blog only to find that you guys are talking about my back. hmmmm. I choose not to respond to eric because I feel that he is not worth my time or energy. He is set in his ridiculous ways and fails to see the way things really are. He thinks that I am more cognizant of my tradition than I am with the words of Jesus Christ. FALSE. Eric, I am a Biblical Literature MAJOR and Religion/Philosophy MAJOR at one of the finest evangelical UNIVERSITIES in the nation. I know my Bible. I also know how to look at the Scriptures and my faith with regard to history and reason. Do not call me to repent when you do not know me. Clearly I have nothing here for which to repent. I was ignorant of one passage of scripture. Big Deal. I was asking help of a brother to point me towards it. But I only got chastised! You are not worth my time, sir.
This is the problem with this blog. It is ridiculous. You criticize me for being stuck in MY box, when you fail to realize that YOU are stuck in YOUR box called "disciples who make disciples who make disciples...." yata yata yata. You are not open to discussion. You only look to criticize. Nothing here is helping to build up brothers and sisters in Christ. This is why I left!! The blog is pointless. My comments are pointless if they cannot be taken seriously. You are right to say that I can stand up for myself. I can and I do!! and I do it very well I think!! Uncle Rick is not sheltering me! My dad is not sheltering me! I can stand up for myself, but I choose to pick my fights! This blog is not worth my fight...I'll save my energy for something and someone that is worth it!
Uncle Bob, you have some serious problems by allowing this type of format and associating with these types of people. When your world crumbles, we will still be here to accept you back. But I am not going to join you where you are at. I cannot do that.
Have we come to this point yet again? When has this format been appropriate/efficient for such discussion? I assume each of the Carder's have each other's telephone numbers- why is this all going on right here? It is hard to believe my eyes... it is neither appropriate or Christlike to call to repentance those who you are not meeting with face to face. Where is the scripture in all of this? Are we not all students of one Word? Subject to the authority of the most incredible revelation of God outside Jesus as the Word incarnate? How about we appeal to that which we all recognize as TRUE and PERFECT and GOOD and PURE and keep each other accountable to that instead of calling each other to our personal relative standards? I don't think this is the first time this all has happened and blown up, but I think it ought to be the last here... of what benefit is it?
Bob continues to call each to one thing- obedience to the Great Commission that Jesus Christ gave all claiming to be His disciples. That is what the church of our age has rejected as a personal thing, but for that matter, the church around us does not even know who Jesus truly is. If you don't believe me, I encourage you to ask every random person you come across in church a few questions.
1. Why was the Son of God revealed?
2. What did Jesus confess as the reason He came?
3. What is the transforming work He has done in your life?
4. When did you receive the empowerment/baptism of the Holy Spirit?
5. What do you think Jesus expects of you/What is your personal responsibility in light of His Word?
The answers are astounding, and reveal most often (at least around me) that we do not have any obligation to obey the Great Commission because we have no idea who our Lord is. The answers to these questions, though perhaps academic in terms of finding them in Scripture, are more than anything experiental. I think that is what is happening more often than not on this blog- Bob and others speak from experience and a first hand witness to radically transforming work that Jesus has done in many lives as they have submitted to putting into practice the theology they grew up with.
Out world is dying of sin. The church is not multiplying in America. Why? I think it is because the individual members of the Body have ignored their individual roles as determined by the Head. Scripture is relative and applies only to particular circumstances. We'd rather argue over who wrote Hebrews than use the truth found in it to see transformation worked out in a lost person's life. I think it is because we've lost the plot. We've lost the intent. We've not only forgot our commissioning as soldiers, but we've hung up our uniform. I think it comes right down to the loss of the Great Commission and many others do as well.
But you disagree- what is your understanding then? I truly want to know, because the one thing that can't be denied is the fact that our world is dying and Christianity has become a shallow mockery of Jesus. What do you think is behind it? I'm not asking for blame- I'm asking for what needs to be done differently? Or do you not think the world is dying and that there are problems in the church?
Marilou,
Sorry for not responding to you earlier, thank you for the clarification. I agree with you. We must continue to let our Lord create His vessel for this generation, the clarification I would like to continue is simply the fact that though it may be a new vessel- the mission will always remain the same. He has not ever nor will He supersede His original calling to His Bride to reproduce. Disciple making will never be obsolete, the context it is done within may shift, but I do not believe the commission ever has or will. Thank you for engaging the issues! You say there is not much affirmation going on where you are- if I you may say, where is that?
Phil said, This is the problem with this blog. It is ridiculous. You criticize me for being stuck in MY box, when you fail to realize that YOU are stuck in YOUR box called "disciples who make disciples who make disciples...." yata yata yata. You are not open to discussion. You only look to criticize. Nothing here is helping to build up brothers and sisters in Christ. This is why I left!! The blog is pointless. My comments are pointless if they cannot be taken seriously. You are right to say that I can stand up for myself. I can and I do!! and I do it very well I think!! Uncle Rick is not sheltering me! My dad is not sheltering me! I can stand up for myself, but I choose to pick my fights! This blog is not worth my fight...I'll save my energy for something and someone that is worth it!
The purpose of this blog is not to build up members of the Body of Christ in their disobedience to the Great Commission. I appreciate you recognizing that I am taking the Great Commission seriously.
This blog proves that a new wine and wine skin are needed for the church to rise up in obedience to the Great Commission as a personal thing. Also we know that in Luke 5, some will say that the old wine is good enough. Well, it's not good enough for me. Write me off or kill me if you wish. I am not satisfied with our level of obedience and the church does not get a pat on the back for disobedience.
Rick did come to defend you and He was wrong to do so. And, he knows that because I spoke with him.
We Carder boys are known for being stubborn...it will all turn out good in the end even in the most bumpy of times...
I'll die standing on Matthew 28 as the command for all.
Phil, All I was saying was that you don't need anyone to defend you - you can hold your own. Right? Go get em!
Phil, first no, I wasn't talking behind your back, I was writing directly to you.
Second, you can tell me from memory 4 points of Wesley but when someone mentions the words of Christ YOU DO NOT KNOW THEM! Why is that Phil? It takes about 80 hours to actually read the Bible cover to cover. Agreed, time needs to be spent diving into it, however, how can you be arguing against us and not recognize words Jesus spoke? Jesus only has so many words he said in scripture. It is not that many. How is it that you know tradition VERY VERY well, but do not know what Jesus said? I am not saying this to be arrogant as some suggested or to be critical of you. I want you to see you are not getting it because only the Holy Spirit can reveal and get you to take a passion and understanding of scripture. I don't care what university you graduated from, or where you are studying. DO YOU HAVE A PASSION FOR SCRIPTURE???? Has God given that to you? Do you spend time each night approaching the throne of God and asking Him to reveal to you what He wants you to know? Or do you rely on a quadratical, heptagon, nonagone or something else to do it through your own reasoning, logic, and tradition? One path is blessed. One is not. I want you to see what God really wants for you. The fact you defend yourself by jumping into your education instead of jumping into who you know (Jesus) is concerning.
"""""Uncle Bob, you have some serious problems by allowing this type of format and associating with these types of people. When your world crumbles, we will still be here to accept you back. But I am not going to join you where you are at. I cannot do that."""""
Phil, I asked you before, do you actually hear from God? Can you have a conversation with Him? Is your relationship really like a father or do you know Jesus distantly? I came out of a system much like yours. I doubted my salvation manytimes. I was stuck in sin repent sin repent. I never actually had a two way converation with God where I talked to Him and I heard back from Him and then I said something else and then heard back. I would just pray if things worked out I would assume that was God talking to me. I trusted in God before with all my heart, and I surrendered all to Him, but I didn't know what He had for me and I didn't really know how to find out. Now it is all different. Now I know my savior like a father. I can ask Him what He wants me to do and then He tells me or at least he tells me what the next step is truly being a lamp unto my feet. Scripture has opened up for me. I understand in a way I never could have using reasoning, tradition, and logic. The Holy Spirit reveals truths to me. There is a dichotomy here. I would be careful Phil or you might be found to be opposing the works of God (Acts).
This comment has been removed by the author.
Okay, enough. May I call a truce here? The whiner win and the whiner-skin loses...er: THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT IS ABLE TO TRANSFORM.
Folks. In everyone's attempt to be right have we forgot the mercy of Christ in our failings?
Please look over this blog and seek confession where needed and give grace.
Bob, thanks for the new entry on the wine-skin. I like Swindoll.
What is at stake in this post is the lack of love and mercy and humility. Can we each find it or should we all depart?
Here this: MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER JUDGMENT.
thanks for rethinking that last post phil. anyone that hears from God of course is not automatically gnostic. I truly do want to hear the answers to my specific questions about what God is doing in your life.
no comments for Rick!
no comments for Bob!
Comments for Eric!
Hi Eric, I removed that post because it was based more on emotion than anything else. I apologize for the tone of my comment there. I may have had a poor delivery, but I still think much of the substance was valid.
In regards to your questions: you do not know me personally nor I you. So there clearly is some misunderstanding when we post. I want you to be aware that my personal relationship is solid. God is radically transforming my life and is using my life to transform others. I am so in love with Christ! It's awesome! I learn something new and draw closer to him everyday. I will not share any specifics with you here though. This is not the place nor are we in right relationship to get into each other's lives that personally. My Uncle Rick knows me well and stands as a witness to my personal faith and commitment. His word in addition to mine ought to be sufficient for you now. Have a great rest of the week!
I would never have a problem telling someone anything God is doing or has done in my life. Anywhere anytime. Why do you?
Also, you think I am Gnostic becasue I speak to God and God speaks to me? I would like your Biblical basis for that.
It's just uninformed comments based on what people think without taking the time to get to really get know you.
I'm speaking in general terms and these comments are not directed to anyone. When it gets personal it is uninformed in most cases.
Phil - it is your uncle Rick that keeps posting a call for stories - let's start with yours and his.
I am asking that the ministry post stories of its effectiveness in reaching people for Christ. I would be happy to share my story of faith in Christ. This is not what I am asking...I would love to read how God is using the ministry to make disciples that make disciples. Bob, set up the article and let's all share our testimonies of Christ in the comments section. This will help everyone understand that we are brothers and sister in Christ and how God has impacted our lives.
We have had people healed of bipolar, depression, what the medical world would call schizophrenia but was actually demonic possession, we watched people turn to Christ, go out and lead another to Christ make a disciple and baptize their own disciple within the month. We have heard chains of bondage break, seen people freed of pornography, homosexuality, OCD. We have seen people give over to God hate, bitterness, anger, and unforgiveness. People were lead to take power in Christ and they gave up smoking, sorcery, satanic metal and drugs. People have cast demons out, rebuked the possessed and silenced them, rebuked the possessed and stopped them in their tracks. People have gained impossible knowledge about others they had no way at all of knowing and had it confirmed by others and helped free people with that knowledge. We have seen a man who was supposed to die come to Christ and get out of his hospital bed and join us in worshiping Christ. There have been visions that came true (none that have shown false), people getting insight into the spiritual realm. We have seen the homeless dedicate themselves to discipleship, the mentally challenged, the rejected.
If you do not believe me here, then there is no point in me going into details about any of the stories. Can you tell me with all honesty you believe me?
I believe you - no reason to doubt you. PTL! God is at work. The wonderful work of Christ is inspiring - thanks for sharing.
Great! Can you give a quick recap of your stories like I did?
Done. Posted on another article.
Post a Comment
<< Home