Richard Greene speaks out...
· The Supremacy of the Great Commission.
Three authoritative contexts:
1. The resurrection of Christ.
2. Christ’s supreme authority.
3. Its apostolic designation.
· It is the preeminent task of the church.
· It is the highest priority of the church.
· It is the defining visionary statement of the church.
· It is the supreme directive under which your church exists and operates.
· The great Commission is the preeminent work of God in this age.
· It’s what God is doing right now!
· If you are intentionally fulfilling the Great Commission by making disciples, you are working in harmony with God.
· If you are not intentionally fulfilling the Great Commission by making disciples, you are doing something other than the work of God!
· The supremacy of the Great Commission demands that we give it our attention, obedience and resolve.
· It is not another program, method, strategy, formula or idea to add to our ministry. It is the heart of your ministry!
· It is the supreme, defining, authoritative and specific mission to which we have been called by the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Planter speaks -Is there any reason not to believe that this is true? Check out the Scriptures before posting.
posted by Bob Carder @ 1:02 AM
24 comments
24 Comments:
The highest of missionary motives is neither obedience to the Great Commission (important as that is), nor love for sinners who are alienated and perishing (strong as that incentive is, especially when we contemplate the wrath of God...), but rather zeal - burning and passionate - for the glory of Jesus Christ.
- John Stott, Romans:God's Good News for the World (p. 53)
He said this in relation to Romans 1:5 "through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of the faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake."
"For His Name's Sake" - We should be 'jealous'...for the honour of his name - troubled when it remains unknown, hurt when it is ignored, indignant when it is blasphemed. And all the time anxious and determined that it shall be given the honor and glory which are due it. (Stott)
While I remain fully committed to the mission of Jesus as the church's mission, and while I embrace the mandate of the Great Commission as the mandate of the church - I react negatively to the phrase "The Supremacy of the Great Commission." To me, I must pursue the Supremacy of Jesus - the Supremacy of God! The Great Commission is not supreme - Jesus is supreme!
When you state: "The Great Commission is the preeminent work of God in this age" it makes me shudder. God's preeminent work is the cross! The atonement is not secondary to making disciples.
Ultimately, making disciples who make disciples is merely the means to an end - which is the glory of God!
The Great Commission is not the highest priority of the church - worship is! As John Piper notes - "missions exists because worship doesn't." People are not worshiping the true God. That's why the Great Commission is necessary.
Again, John Piper notes - "Christ came to get glory for his Father among the nations. If you love what Jesus Christ came to accomplish, you love missions."
Without the work of Jesus on the cross, the Great Commission is meaningless. I'm not denying the importance of the Great Commission. It is our mission! It is important! We must give it our attention and resolve in obedience to Jesus!
But Jesus is supreme - not the Great Commission. The Great Commission is not first and ultimate; God is! The Great Commission exists for His Name's Sake!
I love the way everyone quotes his or her favorite authors. Here are some of mine. I think we can quit arguing about which came first the commission or the worship or whatever. If you think you can have part in Christ without following His teachings I think some authorities would disagree. The Apostle John comes to mind.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
I love the way the Bible sugarcoats everything.
Dave says “I react negatively to the phrase "The Supremacy of the Great Commission." To me, I must pursue the Supremacy of Jesus”
Terry ponders – “Can we do one without the other?”
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Dave says “The Great Commission is not the highest priority of the church - worship is! As John Piper notes - "missions exists because worship doesn't." People are not worshiping the true God. That's why the Great Commission is necessary”
Terry – agrees with the first eleven words then thinks ????????????. Jesus lays out His priorities-
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Is it possible that obeying is worship?
Dave then quotes – “Again, John Piper notes - "Christ came to get glory for his Father among the nations. If you love what Jesus Christ came to accomplish, you love missions."
And Jesus says -
Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Jhn 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
Dave Says “Without the work of Jesus on the cross, the Great Commission is meaningless.”
Terry says – without the work of Jesus on the cross there would be no Great Commission because we would all be dead in our sins with no hope.
While there is great value in holding up the teachings of great men let us remember to look to God’s word so we don’t fall into a very old trap.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
And this last one is my favorite -
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Now can we all go worship together by keeping Jesus’ commands to make disciples of all nations?
Davedv says: Without the work of Jesus on the cross, the Great Commission is meaningless.
Planter: Because of the work of Jesus on the cross - the Great Commission -His reason for dying, needs to be viewed with supremacy over every other act of obedience flowing out and because of our love "worship" relationship with Him. I want to carry on His mission because I love Him! I don't just love and worship Him! My obedience to the Great Commission reveals my love for Him to the world. (A King doesn't just need people bowing at his feet - He needs servants who love and obey.
Davedv - But Jesus is supreme - not the Great Commission. The Great Commission is not first and ultimate; God is! The Great Commission exists for His Name's Sake!
The Planter: Because God is "First" and "Ultimate" and Jesus is "Supreme" we hang on to His every word to us...and one better listen when Jesus rises from the dead and and then takes the time to meet with the apostles and has this to say, "Go and Make Disciples..." (Our Great Co-Mission with God). It was as if Jesus was saying, "before I leave..I want to remind you of something very important to my heart - this is why I came and this is what I am leaving you to continue."
Let's keep trying to get on the same page:
Davedv: Ultimately, making disciples who make disciples is merely the means to an end - which is the glory of God!
The Great Commission is not the highest priority of the church - worship is! As John Piper notes - "missions exists because worship doesn't." People are not worshiping the true God. That's why the Great Commission is necessary.
The Planter: I thought worship of God is a love relationship with Him that is so strong and intimate and natural that it causes us to value what He values. And He values the redemption of every man, woman, child who has not yet been reached by Him.
For all: (My children love me not because they are commanded to -they choose to love me because they want to and because they love me they want to please and obey and honor and respect me).
Hi Terry -
First - I think we probably agree more than you think we do.
Second - Bob has been quoting a lot of Richard Greene lately ...
Third - What was Jesus ultimate priority?
John 4:34 - "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to accomplish His Work."
John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."
Luke 19:10 "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."
Matthew 20:28 "Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.”
Matthew 9:13
"But go and learn what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Matthew 10:34
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
Luke 4:18-19
"THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME,
BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR.
HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES,
AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND,
TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE DOWNTRODDEN,
TO PROCLAIM THE FAVORABLE YEAR OF THE LORD."
John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.”
John 6:38-40
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 10:10
"The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly.”
Jesus mission was to ultimately glorify God by accomplishing His work. Our mission as Christians is to glorify God by accomplishing His work! John 17:4 - "I glorified Thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which Thou hast given Me to do."
Glorifying God is supreme - we do that when we accomplish His work! The Great Commission is not supreme - God is! Now, let's get busy glorifying God by making disciples who make disciples!!!
Hello Davedv--
You did open a can of worms in this blog -
I am with you 100% - not to take sides with man, but rather to agree with you on the supremacy of the gospel and/or mission thereof.
Terry gets a little defensive (what is termed a lot on this blog as passionate) when people disagree with His philosophy of ministry. Stay encouraged! I don't know you but I love your heart!
Todd
Todd said: Hello Davedv--
You did open a can of worms in this blog -
I am with you 100% - not to take sides with man, but rather to agree with you on the supremacy of the gospel and/or mission thereof.
The Planter: Todd can you be more specific on what you mean by "I agree..with you on the supremacy of the gospel and/or mission thereof?"
Todd - are you wearing your sensitive sandals today? I re-read my post and find nothing "Defensive" there. Help a brother out and tell me where I erred.
Hello Bob and Terry,
If you would take a minute to check out davedv's blogspot at
www.missionalchallenge.blogspot.com, you will see that he is doing the same thing that all of us are doing, and that is - doing life with God instead of doing church with life. He reads the same type of books, qoutes from the same authors, etc. The difference I see is that davedv does not seem to have an agenda to push. I am not trying to be too sensitive and if you'll reread davedv's original post, you'll see what I mean by The statement, "I agree..with you on the supremacy of the gospel and/or mission thereof?"
Davedv stated: "While I remain fully committed to the mission of Jesus as the church's mission, and while I embrace the mandate of the Great Commission as the mandate of the church - I react negatively to the phrase "The Supremacy of the Great Commission". To me, I must pursue the Supremacy of Jesus - the Supremacy of God! The Great Commission is not supreme - Jesus is supreme!"
JESUS IS SUPREME!
If you expect the Great Commission call to replace your or anyone else's relationship with Jesus, sometjing is being misconstrued.
Todd
Yey- Richard Greene hits a homerun and gets us thinking on the Great Commission and its place in the Mission of the Church!
I think we all agree more than we all think. Terminology hangs us up.
I don't care if we call the Great Commission "first" "important" "supreme action" "the main thing" "a priority for al of us" as long as we all just do it. Let's all love God and do what He tells us to do for the redemption of this world.A
Who cares how we term it as long as God is first and as long as we do it.
I love Dave's final comments -"Let's just do it" - my paraphrase of Dave.
Now I'm smiling all over myself because I long for the church (All Christ followers) to just do it.
I can't quit smiling all over myself and for Jesus! Thank God for Richard Greene for stirring us all up!
Isn't this fun? (Thanks Dave)!
I quoted Richard in hopes we would realize that it's time to stop talking about the priority of the mission and it's time to start living it with priority. No mission movement will ever occur without renewed ownership and passion to fulfill the Great Co-Mission with God and us (you) working togther to redeem a lost world.
That Supremacy word sure tangles us up.
Todd said:JESUS IS SUPREME!
If you expect the Great Commission call to replace your or anyone else's relationship with Jesus, sometjing is being misconstrued.
The Planter: Todd you know myself and Terry very well and you also know that everything we do or do not do has everything to do with our relationship with Jesus! Because of my relationship with Jesus I serve Him to honor and bring Glory to His name and mission. I'm committed to the Great Co-Mission because I love to see lives changed for eternity. What a privilege!
You know we never ever implied that we want anyone to replace a relationship with Jesus for a mission. This is a huge stretch but if anyone else ever got that impression that is not even remotely possible. I live to fulfill the Great Commission so that thousands can discover Jesus and fall in love with Him. I love to see a life changed by Jesus and that person also falls in love with Him and His mission.
I read DaveDv daily and I am always appreciative of his missional thoughts. He is a personal friend and we share a passion to reach America for Christ. I would hope that we all love Jesus and consider our relationship with Him the most important thing. Now that we all agree with that -let's fulfil His mission and forget getting all tangled up with the word "supremacy" by just fulfilling the Great Commission as Jesus directs us to do.
Todd I never ever said anyone should replace relationship with Jesus for His mission. Because of relationship with Christ we do what He says so othes can love Him and do what He says. That's all.
In Richard Greene's defensive if needed I believe he is trying to get a stalled American church reignited on the Mission of Christ and not just serving/loving Jesus through tradition. I hope Richard won't mind these comments.
Todd, does this help you see more clearly where I am? Let me know!
Bob,
While I feel your motives and love for Christ are sincere, I have a tendency to feel that your mission is AGAINST the church for the sake of winning people to Christ.
For example, a statement you pronounced in my presence: "I don't care if I ever step inside the doors of another church, I want to be the church."
As noble a statement as that may sound, the fact is, Christ died for the CHURCH!
I am not promoting church as usual. It is okay to do things different, but not for the sake of being different (only to reach people for Christ) - but to speak against the very entity that Christ shed His blood seems to be treading on thin gospel water.
Instead of starting another movement, why can't we just take up the movement Christ started.
You see my point - it sounds like a play on words, and it may be.
If all of these blog statements are to refurbish the fire the church (God's people) has seem to have lost for the Great Commission, I am with you...
Todd
What a horrible misrepresentation of the Bob Carder I know and love. If you really believe that he is against the CHURCH Christ died for then either you never knew him or understood his message.
Todd -I don't need to defend my love for the Church of Jesus Christ.
Most importantly: I love you Todd!
When can I buy your lunch?
Terry,
Are you wearing your sensitive sandals today Terry?
You need to reread my comment.
You think you know where I am coming from, but apparently you don't!
I am simply saying that by the LANGUAGE Bob uses, one would think he is mad at the church.
For instance, language like one of his latest blogs stating, "If you defend the American church", as an example.
Yes, I defend the American church -it's the only one we have unless we live in another country!
We can disagree on styles and methods of reaching the lost and maybe even philosophies, but to state wrong doing of the American church - that is simply because of people.
Christ said:
Math. 16:18"...upon this rock I will build my church."
Eph.5:23"...Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body, the church."
Colossians 1:24"...I am participating in the sufferings of Christ that continue for his body, the church."
I know she is not perfect because she is made up of people like you and me that have been lulled a sleep by the status quo, complacency, critical and judgemental attitudes and a number of other problems.
Nor will she look the same in the near future due to numerous other things - but she is still alive and fully functional!
My comment was more about how Bob COMMUNICATES what the PEOPLE in the church are NOT doing rather than what GOD IS doing and desiring to do through people.
Thanks for your comment Terry! What is there not to love about Bob - he has a desirous heart and passionate vision for the God we serve to do something in the earth! It's just a language issue!
Math. 16:18"...I will build my CHURCH and the powers of hell shall not defeat it."
Am I making too big of an issue?
Someone please comment if I am!!!!
Todd
Bob,
I love you too brother. No need for lunch - we're four hours apart! Stay strong and keep doing what the King has called you to do for the Kingdom!!
Todd
Todd, I'm in town tomorrow let's do lunch! We are friends and I love you bro. I need to see you and hopefullty it will help you too.
I called you bro!
Love ya!
Isn't this weird? It's like talking in dront of the whole world. What will communications do next?
Davedv - What do you really think about all of this! I appreciate you!
We both want Missional (Great Commissional movements in America without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Am I right in my assessment of your heart?
Hi Bob -
We share a burning passion for the glory of Jesus, a deep love for His bride (the church), and a growing desire to see America transformed! We both believe that the mission of the church is to carry on the mission of Jesus which must be focussed on the multiplication of disciplemakers!
If anyone takes a look at my profile, you'll know what I'm about - I am focused on fueling missional movements by equipping and empowering pastors and church planters to embrace missional practices, and partnering with denominational leaders to strategically multiply churches across America.
If anyone reads my blog, you'll discover the thoughts that I am processing - Most Christians in America don’t understand the mission of the church. They view buildings as the “church” and invite people to come to their church building. They “entrust” the true mission of the church to trained professionals who leave their own culture to reach those in another culture with the gospel. The absence of missional churches, missional leaders and missional movements in America must be addressed.
Check out my post on what it will take to reach 300 Million Americans...
Serving the King,
Dave DeVries
Todd - !!!WARNING!!! -
That "Sensitive Sandals" phrase is in the porcess of being copyrighted. You will need written permission to use it.
I still stand by my defense of Bob.
Terry,
Your a funny guy. You should stand by your coach.
Todd
All of this just proves what I've said to Bob many times, all along:
Word choice matters! (Spelling too, but I can't win every battle.)
For the record, I agree with all of you. And, no, I'm not bilobiating.
Mike, it is funny isn't it?
I love Mike Ehret who said, All of this just proves what I've said to Bob many times, all along:
Word choice matters! (Spelling too, but I can't win every battle.)
For the record, I agree with all of you. And, no, I'm not bilobiating.
The Planter-Bob says: Word choice matters and all of you are not off the hook and neither is any other Christ-follower! The Great Commission is the "Supreme" act of obedience for every Christ-follower "personally" and it is all-inclusive of every other command we must obey.
"Teach them to obey (ALL) things I have commanded you."
AHHH du wiss dat al Jesus fellerors wood jus geet dit du u geet dit
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