What is Church?
Robert Fitts, "Two or three gathered in Christ name."
Two missionaries sharing the Good News in an igloo in Greenland. The Church.
Two or three believers sharing over a meal. The Church.
Alan Creech, "We need to understand and do church differently because there is deep lack of real transformation going on in the body of Christ."
Reggie McNeal says, "A growing number of people are leaving the institutional church for a new reason. They are not leaving because they have lost faith, they are leaving the church to preserve their faith."
Sojourner writes, "Today, we usually see structure define what the church is. In this context, there is not room for the full and rich diversity of the movement of the Spirit through God's people... Could this be the reason that we are not seeing the glory of the Lord cover our neighborhoods and nations?"
Sojourner further states, "Church as we know it has become a box to live within, not a movement to participate in."
Any other thoughts on What is Church before we close out. Last call.
posted by Bob Carder @ 11:08 PM
8 comments
8 Comments:
For my final comment in the recent debate we have been having, I want to recommend a good book about this very thing. I have been reading Dan Kimball's book "They Like Jesus but not the Church." This has been a very good summation of the attitudes of emerging generations (twenty and thirty somethings). I see his points in my peers, even on a Christian campus. His methods for reaching these, however, is different from the conventional church as well as different from your ministry Bob. It is very interesting to see how he is helping to REFORM, not abandon the old wineskin. I think he has very practical advice and insight. Though I do not agree with it entirely, I highly recommend that every church leader read this book. It is something we need.
Happy blogging to everyone!
"""It is very interesting to see how he is helping to REFORM, not abandon the old wineskin.""""
We tried to REFORM. It seems every church is afraid of reform because it means drastic change and it means they will loose 70-80% of their "church" including many of the high tithers. When they realize that, they high tail it back to what they were doing before.
Eric Wilson
I read the book. Eric you make great points for Phil.
I also tried reforming from within. People in the church get really mean and pastors also when you try to change things as drastic as I have tried.
Believe me I am all scarred up.
Phil-
as the other two have said, we tried. i tried to take this back to where i came from, and they wouldnt have it. they all left me. and i shook the dust off my feet and kept walking. i dont want you to think that we just dropped the church cause we didnt like it. It didnt want to change, so we left and went to where people wanted to be transformed.
but as to the post:
The Church is the Bride. She is to be garbed in His righteousness, draped in His holiness, pure from all that is profane(common), and shining in His glory. a bride fitting for the King solely because He made her so. Unfortunatley, the institutional church has allowed the Bride to wear Hagaar's tattered robes, rather than Sarah's wedding gown. The Bride is in shambles, not prepared for her own wedding.
YES YES YES! Right on Zach!
The Bride is draped in consumerism and anything else to pay for buildings and programs that are not making disciples who make disciples. These methods are reaching some, I agree, but are they making disciples who reproduce holiness and righteousness?
You are right Eric! The bride is wearing Hagar's tattered robes not Sarah's wedding gown.
That was an excellent post, Eric!
I haven't read Dan's book that Phil is referring to--however I have read his other book and I talked with him personally. Dan started out as a youth and young adult pastor with unique and new wineskins. Dan and his pastor immediately felt and saw the tension that the two philosophies of ministry created. They tried to exist side by side in ministry but it was too tense even though Dan and his Senior Pastor had a great relationship. As his group grew, Dan eventually separated with the blessing of his pastor to start Solomon's Porch. He did not start a disciple making church plant but something very new and different. Dan is a change agent! Dan is a creator of new wineskins! His advice to me was try to peacefully start a new ministry..mixing the new and old is very difficult.
Marti - this is the same tension we have in the MC right now. I didn't know that about Dan. He sure gave you great advice.
There was one thing I disagreed with Dan K on but for the life of me I cannot remember what it was. I'm not even sure I still have the book to review my notes.
I've been racking my brain...
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