This deserves discussion...
Deadly Detours?
Excerpt from a blog post by Hank Lamb
In 1993 Dr. Os Guinness, of the Trinity Forum Christian think tank in Washington, ...said that the Church needs to get back to "the first things of the Gospel."
Before I mention what these "first things" are, let me share what they are not. Bob Briner catalogued them quite succinctly in his compelling book, Deadly Detours: Seven Noble Causes that Keep Christians from Changing the World. He proclaimed seven deadly detours the church had taken during the 1980s and early 1990s. Here they are:
1. Squabbling over prayer in public school
2. Making Jesus a right-winger
3. Thwarting the homosexual agenda
4. Fighting other Christians over doctrinal purity
5. Shutting down the abortion clinic
6. Cleaning up Christian television
7. Fighting for family values
The first things of the Gospel are (1) that Jesus came and (2) that his kingdom is not of this world. Bob Briner says, "When we forget either of these, when we fail to build our lives and our ministries around them, we cease to be truly evangelical, and we inevitably take deadly detours and miss heavenly highways."
The Planter: Do you think Bob Briner is correct in his conclusion that the two things above (in bold) are the right first things first?
What do you think about Dr. Os Guinness and his comments above?
posted by Bob Carder @ 1:58 PM
15 comments
15 Comments:
Those two are fine as long as they don't end there. Christ proclaimed freedom and liberty, those need to be at the forefront of what the church proclaims.
I like the 7 he lists.
Also, to the doctrinal purity stuff, if he's talking about secondary stuff like eschatology and whatnot, that's fine. But I can't worship with others who reject the inerrancy of Scripture or deny the deity of Christ. Those foundational doctrines deserve to be defended vigorously.
But those probably aren't what he's talking about.
without having read Briner's book, I'd have to say that, yes, I'm there with him. And that should not be taken as a comment that they are "more important" than the Great Commission.
If Jesus never really came, or if he came only to build an earthly kingdom (and failed at doing so), then the Great Commission is irrelevant. There's no reason to spread the word about a man who wasn't real or was just a temporary figure in history.
So, yeah, I with Briner.
Beautiful and perfect in the simpilicty of these statements. Funny, ever since the "gospel" was reworked by the moral majority (which has been found out to be neither-a comment for another time) and then the republican party (of which I am a member so I feel comfortable saying so) we have allowed the "what it is nots" to dominate. They make good television, raise money and frankly they are a piece of cake to preach...they tickle the ears of the hearers. However, Jesus came and the Kingdom is not of this world forces us, the very comfortable, fat and happy, to move it or lose it. I would rather point my finger at others, call them bad and not have to confront the reality that I am the sinner, that I am the one who cannot fit into the Kingdom because of my wealth and unwillingness to drop all and follow. Actually, I got tossed from 2 pulpits for just this type of thing. Went to work in business, tried the church again, got bounced again and now find serving as a volunteer, worshipping with others in a home and occassionaly hitting the box church to see some folks (the looks and whispers have died down over time when I show)---but I digress...
Prefect and simple, thanks for the words.
1, 2, and 6 are definite diversions. 3, 4, 5, and 7 have some merit. At the very least speaking out or standing up in these ways provides society with a prophetic voice. Isn't that a form of large scale discipleship -- presenting the teachings of Christ to the nation as a whole?
One thing I'm not clear on: Is the author saying that all 7 should be abandoned or that we need to put first things first and THEN go after some of the items on the list?
I can't imagine Os Guinness recommending abandonment of social issues. He highlights the anti-slavery efforts of British Christian William Wilburforce in his book The Call. Guinness, at least indirectly, endorses a goal of societal change through politics as a legitimate calling from God in the book.
Feed the hungry, clothe the naked and love the unlovable. Those are the only social issue one should be concerned with. The rest is political, easy junk.
Anon ... Why did you choose these? Is abortion not a political issue we should confront? Was the Civil Rights movement off limits for Christians? Was Wilberforce too political when he led Parliament to end the slave trade in England?
Did Jesus address political issues for the sake of influening agenda or for the sake of the hearts of the politians? I am just asking... I struggle with the church involving itself in politics. Although I understand that if she is silent that is a problem too. Maybe it is just not my calling.
So I am gonna go with Briner but add... THEN, when His work was complete, HE SENT HIS HOLY SPIRIT . Believe it or not, I don't think that part can be left out!
Oh wow, I'm like the princess and the pea on this subject, I don't think I can leave it alone.... In fact, I think I am gonna rant for a moment:
You know what has been blowing my mind lately in scripture? How often the Lord interacted with Judas and he did not expose him until the very end and even then He did not expose him so that others understood. He said, "I chose the 12 of you, but one is a devil." He said leave Mary alone when Judas said "but the poor, Lord" Then when Jesus did expose Him, it was for His glory, man didn't even understand it. ... Jesue did not stop the process, because the process what appointed.
So why was Judas there then... He was not there to worship the Lord obviously. So why was he there? I would suggest polical and financial gain. Did Jesus deal with those agendas? NOPE Did He allow their influence to continue? YEP! In fact, did the accomplish God's will even in their wicked state? Praise the Lord...YES!!!
Jesus said "give to Ceaser, what is Ceaser's; and give to God, what is Gods." I gotta say, I think if we participate in the political process, we gotta do it as Americans, not as the church! (unless we are of course waring in the Spirit) These are important issues, but they are sypmtoms. The Chuch is the only one who can deal with the sickness, but it must be dealt with in the hearts of men... one on one!
What I am learning is that Satan works in some very crafty ways, some might be: Distractions, lies being half truths or distorted truths that seem right, but appeal to the flesh. etc. So, I can go with the first things of the Gospel subject, but I gotta go back and say AMEN! to the detours. These are issues of morality, syptoms of the problems.
Get back on the right Path as fast as you can!
Church you have the cure, don't medicate the symptom. You are not doing your job, you are being distracted. Frankly you have upset the prophets and appostles, they have left for the mission field and now, you are ungaurded. Satan has flanked you and now launches a frontal assault!
A great falling away... of course, where would the attack be? Not on those who don't believe, but on those who do. Satan marches on...keep them busy with issues, give them their morality, their gospel, but leave out the life change, leave out the power.. "a form of godliness, but denies its power"... THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!!
Oh my gosh, what were we thinking? Look participate in politics and such as you feel led, I think though that as the world's love grows cold that the issues that have the name of Christians attached to it will be black balded immediately.
In summary, Good issues, worthy causes, but not for the church. ONly life in Christ is eternal, and one day Christian's and the Church will lose all political rights. no matter what we do... they will kill us. But just like with Christ, it is appointed. So the church should concentrait on the issues at hand: Jesus, sharing the whole Truth, the Holy Spirit, poor, orphans and widows, disciples, Freedom etc!... in my oppinion.
And as far as #4. Don't fight... LIVE IT. Nothing proves it right like FRUIT!
It is easier to change a law then to change a heart. In our prepackaged, feel good, comfy believer culture we would rather change a law.
Caryn concluded, "But just like with Christ, it is appointed. So the church should concentrate on the issues at hand: Jesus, sharing the whole Truth, the Holy Spirit, poor, orphans and widows, disciples, Freedom etc!... in my opinion."
The Planter: Caryn, this is a wonderful summary. WOW! We radical disciple multipliers need to get together. God is truly up to something HUGE in America.
Thanks to the others for great comments also. This is a great dialogue.
I haven't been able to comment for a while because school blocked the site. :-(
Anyway, they are all distractions. Anytime we are trying to clean up stuff of the unsaved, we are going to fail. There needs to be an end at this moment of people proclaiming to be Christians and having abortions. There needs to be a end right now of people claiming to be Christians and watching pornography and other filth. There needs to be an end right now of people claiming to be Christians and doing evil things continually. What do we have to do with the unsaved? What authority do we have over them? Let them continue in their sin knowing their sin will find them out. All Christians who do these things must repent or be disciplined by the church and not allowed to continue to minister or be ministered to in the same Name that we follow. Would it be nice if abortion was illegal? Yeah, it would be nice but that can not be a focus. We need to focus on Christ and what He actually told us to do. We need to clean up the groups that claim to know him. Not associate with those who claim they do but do not live that way.
1Cor 5:11-13
Since I'm clearly in the minority of opinion here I have a question for the majority. Isn't calling the political establishment to account a form of discipleship? If discipleship involves teaching people to obey the commands of Christ, shouldn't we call our government to be biblical government -- the kind that upholds justice? Shouldn't we provide a prophetic voice like the OT prophets calling our culture to biblical norms?
And yes, I realize Jesus and the disciples never did this, but they didn't have the right to influence their government as we do.
Why don't we do both? Why not change hearts through one on one discipleship while simultaneously seeking to transform government and culture?
sorry, its been a while since i posted, so im back. this is in response to the article as a whole, not the responses. i will read those later and comment thus, so bear with me:
as for his first things, i'm just a little shocked that "Jesus is God" and "God alone is God" are not there. if He came but wasnt God, that makes everything pointless, and if He is not GOd alone, than His not-of-this-world-ness is rather pointless, isnt it? or did i miss something in translation?
as for his seven distractions, my opinions follow in suite:
1.)as soon as we realize that the institutions of the world are not in any way the workings of His Kingdom, and set our eyes accordingly, whether or not the schools "allow" anything becomes pointless.
2.)Jesus is not a republican or a democrat. He is Sovereign King. and His standard is far higher than what either party is willing to submit themselves to, so why do we care about a system that has no reverence or care for God?
3.) Fight the war on the spiritual realm, not the physical. Walk in the Spirit, free the prisoners from the darkness of homosexuality and THEN the "agenda" will dwindle.
4.)Jesus set the standard. if we dont touch it, and expel the those who refuse to obey Him, as we are commanded to, this shouldnt be a problem.
5.) once again, spiritual war, not physical war. People killed their babies long before there were clinics, and shutting them down will not stop them from giving their children to Molech (yes, i am connecting those two). Win the souls, not the protest.
6.) If people are removing the profane from their lives, as we should be, why should this ever be a problem?
7.)family values falls short of what we were called to: holiness. pursue that and this fight becomes irrelevant.
ultimately all my points come down to this: we are in the world, not of it. we are strangers here. this is made very clear in Scripture. so why are we trying to make this world look like the Kingdom, when we are supposed to be winning the spiritual war, making disciples, baptizing them into His death and Spirit, and teaching them to conform to HIS pattern?
Am i making sense? or did i miss something?
and, after reading, my comment:
Joel, you ask "Isn't calling the political establishment to account a form of discipleship? "
No. Discipleship is only of the saved, as far as i understand. and since we cannot hold the unsaved to be anything but what they are, why should we change THEIR government to make them be like Him? How does it glorify Him if people obey His law without faith, and only by force? it doesnt.
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