Anony just posted this way down the line...I respond!
Anonymous has left a new comment on a post down the line, somewhere, who knows where? Here they are:
"Come and see the Love of Jesus Alive in our Church! That banner is an invitation to those who are lost.
Mr. Carder, I believe that you have lost the Joy of Jesus and gained a genuine dislike of the Church. And if that is so, how can you be a member of the Holy Church, the body of Christ.
Try as you might, the church will never be perfect because it is made up of sinners, saved by the Grace of Jesus!!"
THE PLANTER RESPONDS:
Since these comments were just received and far down the blogpost line, I'm bringing it up to the top for discussion.
1. First, I love the Church, always have and always will. I have given my life to Jesus so I am part of the Church - the bride of Christ. His holy bride!
2. Anony is right, I am not very happy with what I have seen in the church and I dislike her when she refuses to become the Church that declares the glory of God! I dislike our lack of freedom as in living a victorious life, our unwillingness to personally engage the lost - a mandate for all believers, our consumerism focus, our lack of holiness, our ineffectiveness in reaching younger generations, our departmentalized spiritual lives, our lack of a sacrificial do or die commitment. This is enough to start the discussion. If you are not guilty of the claims above - don't go down the defensive road, I don't have time for that anymore. If you can't see that the church in America is fast losing her influence and power to transform whole communities for Christ - I'm not going to be able to convince you -you are already fully blind. Go ahead and bask in your glory at the expense of displaying God's glory.
3. Inviting unsaved people to church has for too long become our excuse for not leading them to Jesus ourselves. We have missed our true calling. Why not teach and lead the church (every believer) to lead people to Jesus and then enfold them into the church family in baptism, into total freedom, and in the power of a Holy Spirit baptized relationship.
4. I love being a part of the Body of Christ. I grieve, deeply at what we have done to water down the power of the "setting captives truly free" message. If anony senses a lack of joy on my part regarding the church it is not as one who hates the church - it is because I love the church and I have a "weeping prophet" awareness of the state of the church. The ship (Church) has leakage, if we can admit it, there is hope/time to turn course and take back what has been ravaged by Satan so that God's glory can once again be declared to the physical and spiritual realms.
5. I strongly dislike what is represented here in anony's post to me. First it is done anonymously. That's not Biblical. What spiritual brother or sister would do that under cover? I should be used to such anonymous attacks -I've had them all my life (usually just minutes before I got up to preach). Secondly it is judgmental. I doubt that anony even knows me. Even if she/he claims to -they do not know me the way I and others close to me, know me. Thirdly, this is a perfect example of the self-righteousness of the church (sadly) toward others. In my case anony has presumed me to be or made me to be lost. Fourthly, everyone knows the Church is not perfect, none of us are perfect, we all know that, don't we? Is that any excuse for not being the thriving, beating heart of Jesus?
6. Finally, if the church is not teaching/leading all believers to make disciples who make disciples why do we not change that and regain the New Testament thrust of becoming a Holy Spirit fueled and transformational Church that declares God's glory?
I see the Church declaring the glory of God. It's like this - Even the demons know that God is God and that He alone is God when they see the Holy Spirit power of God unleashed through us. Are the demons convinced (because of you) that the God you serve is God and that He alone is God because of the Gory of God displayed in your life? After God does a work in others through you - do the demons run scared? Are they convinced that God is God in your life because of the fruit in your life?
Please no senseless - defensive - babbling allowed. Let's talk about making the difference.
posted by Bob Carder @ 11:43 AM
3 comments
3 Comments:
Wow. Anonymous just doesn't get it. 4% of my generation is taking any part at all in any church. Out of them, from my experience, most of them go because they always have gone and they want to be "good". If you call people to something other than Christ, it is useless. You who are calling people to church and not to Christ will be judged someday. Why don't you all seek God as to what He is doing? You who keep point to a building, an idol, and acting like it is Jesus who you are bringing people to, you are sadly mistaken. In the ministry here, I have seen demons leave, individuals empowered in Christ, possessed set free, physical healing of conditions that do not heal naturally, healings of mental conditions, people leaving drugs, people coming to the call. I baptized people who baptized their new disciple within a few months. Does Bob love the Church? I know he does. The problem is those buildings are filled with people who are not the church. People who are unregenerated and enemies of God with no desire for Him. I see Bob's love for the Church, and greater than that, Bob's love for Christ. Now, why are the anonymous people so scared? Everything that is hidden will be revealed. Why not announce to us all who you are? Why hide? When God is finished blessing us, anonymous is afraid his fruit will be revealed and all will see where the blessing of the Lord lies.
i do have a question for anony's point. he said "the church will never be perfect because it is made up of sinners made perfect by the grace of Christ".
I ask, then what did Jesus mean when He commanded people to go and stop sinning? If He said stop sinning, He didnt mean sin less, He meant stop. Was that an impossible call? in the flesh, certainly. Nothing but sin comes from it. but if we, the Bride, lay down our lives, die to sin, and pick up our crosss and live His life as we are commanded, our obedience through faith makes us righteous!
I can say from knowing Bob that he loves the Church, it's the little-c-church he has a problem with. the organization that has no scriptural basis passing itself off as the ultimate solution when its actually failing its mission (a mission that God already paid the price for us to win, by the way) and is dying in the structure it set for itself.
A little food for thought: does anybody else realize that Jesus often found the demonized in the synogauges? not just that people brought them to Him, but that they were already there? does anyone else see that as a big flashing sign?
So you've struck a pet peeve of mine and I can't just be silent...
Anonymous,
STATE YOUR IDENTITY. To take pot shots in such a manner is a shameful and ignorant thing to do in this place. Bob has left his identity unquestionable, as have Eric and Zach. We have nothing to hide. By what authority do you make such claim and accusations? WHO ARE YOU TO SAY SUCH THINGS ANONYMOUSLY? This to me is reprehensible. I am appalled. How can you expect to be taken seriously? I hope you don't infer too much anger here, be assured, it is not directed at you personally (for I don't even know who you are) but at the deception you must live in to think that you have shared a word of truth or correction by anonymously posting on a blog. If you were to share scripture, quote another's words, or anything of that nature, things would be different here. Scripture speaks for itself, as do most quotes, but here you have made a judgment with a first-person prerogative and I can see no other motivation than fear, which has no place in love. I for one, do not take you seriously, and will not take you seriously, nor any other anonymous judgment others may bring, until you throw off your cowardice and speak boldly, openly, and unhidden. Thank you.
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