May your britches burn...
May your britches burn for hunkering down and being satisfied with American Churchiology? The church of consumerism! The place of spiritual buffets that feed the soul with feel goodisms (my new word). A group of groups of groups that believes certain things but never acts on what they say they believe. The only place where ME is always first, ALWAYS!
Are your britches burning?
posted by Bob Carder @ 10:09 PM
11 comments
11 Comments:
Bob, Bob, Bob. This is clearly your response to my blog post. (sigh)
Brother, I hope you aren't saying that I am "satisfied with American Churchiology." I hope you aren't saying that I am satisfied with the "church of consumerism and feel-goodism." If so, I am apalled. You missed the whole point of my post.
You should know by now how saddened, sickened, I am by what western Christianity has become...as saddened and sickened as you.
The point of my post, that you seem to have missed, is that I believe that we can and should pursue a different path. I've simply come under conviction that my words and attitudes against those who don't see things my way yet are more toxic than helpful. I want to lead others onto the same path you speak about here. I've simply decided to stop yelling about it so much and just start doing it and letting the work of God in our midst speak for itself.
You may be interested to know that since my arrival here in Columbus our church has halted our building program, is even willing to sell the land if God so leads, and is laying groundwork for creating organic communities of discipleship around the city. We are doing the very thing you and I have been writing about. Yet we're continuing to love and unify with fellow pastors who are stuck in the old ways.
It's a work of kindness and gentleness that God is trying to do in my soul. It is God's kindness that leads people to repentance. I want to be the embodiment of that kindness.
I reponsed to your blog comment on my blog.
Love ya brother.
An old Leslie Phillips song comes to mind:
YOUR KINDNESS
By Leslie Phillips
Waiting for angry words to sear my soul
Knowing I don't deserve another chance
Suddenly the kindest words I've ever heard
Come flooding from God's heart
(Chorus)
It's your kindness that leads us
To repentance Oh Lord
Knowing that You love us
No matter what we do
Makes us want to love You too
(Repeat)
No excuse no one to blame
No way to hide
The eyes of God have found my failures
Found my pain
He understands my weaknesses
And knows my shame
But His heart never leaves me.
(Repeat Chorus)
(Bridge)
If You are for us
Who can be against us
You gave us everything
even Your only Son
(Repeat Chorus)
Makes me grateful every time ... because I know the depth of my failures and I know the punishment I deserve. If interested, I believe it's available on iTunes.
No,no,no, Bill. I just restated the problem in American Christianity.
God never gave me a Phlegmatic bone in my body. I'll leave most of this to the peace makers.
I love the sinner, but hate the sin.
I love the church member, but grieve over their inability to see the mission clearly.
I'm part of the problem also, since I taught them to be good church members over the years.
I do carry that burden and it comes out in my passion to make a difference.
Mike, you are a crack up! By the way, thanks for the lyrics, and reminder to be and do all of the above.
Bill & Mike – I get warm fuzzy feelings just reading your comments.
Jesus could have modeled this for us if it was the approach He wanted us to take. In fact in His first public sermon He chose not to heal, perform miracles, or let the work of God in His midst speak for itself until after He had finished a large portion of it. He instead described His true followers as Salt and Light. He then raised the bar from the physical to the intent of the heart. He did speak of praying and fasting privately so as not to be noticed.
At the same time He gives this teaching in opposition to the “hypocrites”. Three times He directly refers to the practices of the existing religious system as that of hypocrites. Starting in chapter 7 He gives a very difficult teaching about judging. Read it carefully so you don’t stop and get hung up on the first verse. What He just did in chapter 6 would be considered “judging” in our day. I cannot see how anyone can read the accounts of the life of Christ and see a strong vocal opposition to error.
Then came the gate, the false prophets, and fruit. Not everyone in church is part of the bride so why must we assume they are? By making this assumption you have judged their heart by outward appearances, which is something, you should not be doing. Jesus declares that many will come to claim Him that He never knew. I do not judge the people or their hearts; I only call to task their actions and their teachings.
My question for both of you is where does your responsibility as members of the Body of Christ start and stop (assuming you are both members of the bodyJ). Do you have an obligation to point out things that might be leading people astray or is this just a free-for-all approach. Try it all and let God sort it out. If we can’t point out error within Christianity then why can we point it out outside of Christianity? For example, you may both agree that we should tell people that certain cult teachings are wrong. Shouldn’t we also point out that failing to obey Christ’s command to make disciples is equally as wrong? Shouldn’t the teachers of both be admonished? If those within the church do not point this out then who will? Will those outside the church? I leave you with a little something from the apostle Paul.
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within {the church?}
But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
Terry: My question for both of you is where does your responsibility as members of the Body of Christ start and stop?
Bill: "Be completey humble and gentle, be patient, bearing with one another in love." (Ephesians 4:2)
"Prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does it's work.
That's my answer Terry. Lovingly, faithfully equipping the saints. I read your stuff and it just seems that you're just mad at everyone else who isn't a part of True Vine. I may be wrong...but that just feels like the tone. And that saddens me...because I really believe in what you're doing and have often longed to be there in the midwest doing it with you. I just wish we could do it without all the anger toward those who don't yet get it.
Bob.
It just dawned on me that you may have taken my statement yesterday the wrong way. When I said, "I'm going to post something that will burn your britched" I didn't mean that I was going to deliberately post something to burn you personally. I simply meant that what I was about to write (out of my own heart convictions) was probably going to irritate you.
I'm sorry if you took it to mean that I was going to deliberately attack you. I certainly didn't mean to imply that.
Bill - Please take in the whole counsel of Scripture and don't ignore what irritates you.
Thanks for judging me too - and incorrectly by the way.
The whole counsel...yes...always have.
Reread my comment please. I didn't make a judgement about you. I told you of my perception...nothing more.
I'm finished with this conversation. Saddened by the lack of grace. And finished.
As you were.
Makes me sad to think that as many people that you are reaching, probably that many or more are being turned away by the "perception" of your attitudes.
Bill, thank you for SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE.
There are two sides of love.
1Cr 11:18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part I believe it.
1Cr 11:19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.
Come on guys, this all started with Bill's britches burning post. Actually it is time to call out sin and refuse to cover it up with feel goodness.
Anonymous, don't worry the people you speak of are already turned away and off by the actions and inactions of the church. You are pointing in the wrong direction here. You sound like a church member I once knew who refused to see himself.
Bill you got exactly what I felt when I read your comments leading to burning britches.
Bill said, That's my answer Terry. Lovingly, faithfully equipping the saints. I read your stuff and it just seems that you're just mad at everyone else who isn't a part of True Vine. I may be wrong...but that just feels like the tone. And that saddens me...because I really believe in what you're doing and have often longed to be there in the midwest doing it with you. I just wish we could do it without all the anger toward those who don't yet get it.
The Planter: Bill you need to find out why you are bothered by Terry, He isn't mad or angry, I have never seen Him mad or angry. Believe me when I say Terry is not mad or angry. He is just a simple Truth teller who refuses to move away from Great Commission supremacy and mandate for all believers personally and with urgency. You should meet him and before commenting at this level, seek to know him and also you should read your own blog, broken windows. That blogpost of your seems in contradiction to your statements here.
What's going on Bill? This does not sound like you. Are you conflicted between what you know and what you defend?
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